Author Topic: Vinegar Dye  (Read 20154 times)

Offline Luke MacGillie

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Vinegar Dye
« on: November 08, 2010, 12:10:49 AM »
So Ive got a Quart of Vinegar and a pack of steel wool.  I need to dye a knife sheath.  Whats the Ratio of liquid to wool and how long do I need to let it "Ferment"

TIA,

Luke

Offline James Rogers

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Vinegar Dye
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2010, 12:24:58 AM »
I have always used rusty nails and barbed wire, etc. and left it about 2 weeks.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2010, 12:49:44 AM by Tim Crosby »

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2010, 01:46:46 AM »
I used wrought iron from an old bridge. Had it "soaking" about a year but I don't think its necessary to leave it that long. I kept adding vinegar.

On the steel wool, I have heard you need to be sure to de-grease it.
Dennis
 
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Offline Tim Crosby

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2010, 02:09:02 AM »
 Do a search on Vinegar, about 5 posts down you will see the answer. I tried to copy and post all the results but it is a pretty big link.

 Tim C.

Offline skillman

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2010, 02:40:06 AM »
Steve Skillman

Offline Luke MacGillie

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2010, 02:44:11 AM »
Do a search on Vinegar, about 5 posts down you will see the answer. I tried to copy and post all the results but it is a pretty big link.

 Tim C.

Tim,

Thanks I had read the threads in the gunbuilding forum last night, but since Im trying to do leather was hoping to get leathercentric comments here in the Accouterments forum.

But it seems that this is not going to be a project that I can have the sheath stained by next week, so I will probably go with something commercial and wait for this stuff to brew up....



Offline Chuck Burrows

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2010, 05:54:40 AM »
If you've got ferric nitrate aka Aqua Fortis handy it will do the same thing and is documentable to the time for leather as well as wood.......
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

Black Hand

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2010, 09:48:51 PM »
Luke,
You may still be able to accomplish this feat with the vinegar and 0000 steel wool.  Place your vinegar in a jar and add shredded steel wool making sure the lid is loose (~1 cup of vinegar and 1 pad of 0000).  I've had the stuff dissolve overnight.  There may be enough iron to do the trick, though adding more steel wool may increase the coloring capacity. 

See if it will color your leather.

Gun Butcher

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2010, 01:27:23 AM »
I have had real good luck with just burning the steel wool to get the oil out and then letting it soak over night in the vinegar. Got a real nice black out of it.
Ron

Black Hand

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2010, 09:27:17 PM »
....burning the steel wool to get the oil out....

Now that is a good idea!  Might be a great way to recycle the old 0000 with wood whiskers in it for dye....

Offline Luke MacGillie

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2010, 04:05:04 AM »
So at aprox 30 hours the vinegar has taken on a rusty, almost cider color, Its bubbling, not a boil, but every few seconds a bubble comes to the top.  I think I will let this run till sunday evening and test a small scrap of leather before doing my knife and hawk sheath.


Offline Clark Badgett

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2010, 07:12:14 AM »
This is a great discussion, I've actually been looking into using this dye, as opposed to what's available commercially, for my hunting bags.  Does anyone know what the word on ventilation or safety with this stuff is?  I know that vinegar is obviously harmless but after the chemical reaction, is the vinegaroon toxic at all?

Harmless.
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Black Hand

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2010, 08:33:48 PM »
This is a great discussion, I've actually been looking into using this dye, as opposed to what's available commercially, for my hunting bags.  Does anyone know what the word on ventilation or safety with this stuff is?  I know that vinegar is obviously harmless but after the chemical reaction, is the vinegaroon toxic at all?

Keep in mind that this works with vegetable tan leather and not much else......

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2010, 08:40:03 PM »
This is a great discussion, I've actually been looking into using this dye, as opposed to what's available commercially, for my hunting bags.  Does anyone know what the word on ventilation or safety with this stuff is?  I know that vinegar is obviously harmless but after the chemical reaction, is the vinegaroon toxic at all?

Keep in mind that this works with vegetable tan leather and not much else......


But you can sort of cheat.  If you can get your hands on some oak bark.  Scrape the inside of the bark.  Place the scrapings in water.  This extracts tannic acid from the bark.  You can apply this to the leather before or after applying the vinegar/iron dye.

This gives a black color.

E. Ogre

Black Hand

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2010, 04:10:35 PM »
This is a great discussion, I've actually been looking into using this dye, as opposed to what's available commercially, for my hunting bags.  Does anyone know what the word on ventilation or safety with this stuff is?  I know that vinegar is obviously harmless but after the chemical reaction, is the vinegaroon toxic at all?

Keep in mind that this works with vegetable tan leather and not much else......


But you can sort of cheat.  If you can get your hands on some oak bark.  Scrape the inside of the bark.  Place the scrapings in water.  This extracts tannic acid from the bark.  You can apply this to the leather before or after applying the vinegar/iron dye.

This gives a black color.

E. Ogre

A strong solution of tea should do the same.

Offline Luke MacGillie

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2010, 03:54:41 AM »


Glen McClain knife,

Kyle Williard Ax,

Sheaths made by me, and dyed with Vinegar and Iron Dye.  Im very happy with the results, thanks to all that helped me out with this project

Luke

Offline James Rogers

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2010, 04:46:27 PM »
The sheaths came out real good Luke. Did you go with the steel wool to hasten the process?

Offline Luke MacGillie

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2010, 04:57:25 PM »
I did the steel wool, which I washed in Dawn to take out the oil because it was what I had on hand on a rainy day that I was watching the kids ;D.  I later went out to a burnt out BBQ grill  that was out back and pulled some rusty pieces off of it, as well as scraped some rust out of the burn barrel. 


Offline G. Elsenbeck

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2010, 05:59:17 PM »
Quote
burn barrel.

 ;D  I haven't heard that phrase since 1968!  Memories. 

The items look good.
Gary
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Offline Luke MacGillie

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2010, 06:04:01 PM »
Quote
burn barrel.

 ;D  I haven't heard that phrase since 1968!  Memories. 

The items look good.
Gary

Rount hear everyone has a burn barrel out back.  When I started doing some earthmoving to make my backyard range I found an old burnt out car!

Offline G. Elsenbeck

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2010, 06:09:58 PM »
A great find at that!

Gary
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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2010, 11:51:43 PM »
Looks real nice!

I have used this type of dye, I put a package of 0000 steel wool (washed it first) in a gallon of vinegar. Let it set for a week or so, and the wool dissolved nicely into the vinegar.  A quick soak in the brew make the leather a nice dark black, a black that goes all the way through and wont bleed.

One word of caution, rinse the solution out of the leather the best as you can. I made a wallet using that dye, and whatever methyl-ethyl bad shtuff is left over in the solution basically destroyed the leather. It made it dry and flaky. I even washed it well in a mix of baking soda and water to to try and neutralize the acid in the vinegar. I put several coats of oil on it after it was done, but the side of the wallet next to my behind got flaky. It soaked up sweat and made the leather "rot" in a sense.

Some folks have had zero troubles with the mix, some people have had trouble. Not saying its good or bad, just relaying my experience.

When I say "flaky", I mean I can take chunks out of it by just using my fingernail.


RoaringBull

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2010, 06:33:47 AM »
The best thing to do after using the dye is to rinse the leather well in a weak solution of baking soda and water to neutralize the acid the vinegar left in the leather, then rinse it again in clean clear water to remove the base solution. Be sure to oil the leather too.

Offline T.C.Albert

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2010, 05:44:05 PM »
Just curious about the acidity problems some folks have...does anybody know what a typical ph is for a batch of fresh brewed vinegar dye? And then what the ph is of leather freshly dyed with the stuff...? And maybe even what the ph of the leather was, or was supposed to be before it was dyed?
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Offline Mad Monk

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Re: Vinegar Dye
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2010, 06:30:37 PM »
Just curious about the acidity problems some folks have...does anybody know what a typical ph is for a batch of fresh brewed vinegar dye? And then what the ph is of leather freshly dyed with the stuff...? And maybe even what the ph of the leather was, or was supposed to be before it was dyed?

I am not sure that a weak organic acid, such as vinegar, is the problem with leather cracking and flaking in use.

Some years back it was claimed that the old use of acid based leather dyes, such as nitrate of iron, destroyed the leather.  What came out of that was the fact that years ago most homes had sulfur fumes in the building from the heating systems burning fuels such as coal.  When the oxides of sulfur, in the air, got into the leather it formed sulfuric acid which will destroy leather.


When I was doing pouches some years back I noticed that the leather I was buying had no oils in the leather.  The tech books on the leather industry went into a process they called "stuffing" the leather.  The final step in the tanning process was to place the hides in a rotating barrel and add what is described as a non-oxidizing oil.  Large quantities of menhaden fish oil had been used for this purpose.  The oil would act as an "internal lubricant" within the leather giving it flexibility.  If the leather is not "stuffed" it tends to be brittle and the fiber structure begins to break down and the leather simply falls apart.

The oil used to "stuff" the leather also limits the amount of water the leather picks up from the air.  The oil acting something like a waterproofing agent.  Leather is extremely porous and hygroscopic.

So the breakdown of the vinegar dyed leather may be more a point of not being "stuffed" rather than any chemical attack by residual acetic acid in the leather left over from dyeing.


E. Ogre