How many hours to build a rifle?

[Tenn Hills Guy]

Wonder if anyone has ever kept accurate time of how many hours it takes to essentially scratch build a gun?  I've spent almost 6 hours each day for two weeks now just doing 'tweaking' on various pieces: wood, steel and brass.  Bought the barrels for my SB but made everything else.  I'm soon entering my second year on this.......though not solidly working on this.  I wonder how the old timers made a living.  I doubt at $3-4000.00, a guy would be making any money.  Just curious if one started nd worked every day, how many could you build a year?  Bill

[T*O*F]

It would depend on whether the gunmaker knows what he's doing.

It would also depend if the gunmaker works alone or has help; and, also on the quality of the gun...poorboy, plain gun, or carved and engraved.

Some shops have a builder, a filer, and a finisher and put out 7-10 guns a week.  An old timey shop usually had one or more apprentices to help.

The number you are looking for is 40 to 100 hours for a single average journeyman builder.

[westerner]

Tenn Hills Guy,

When making guns for a living, the work would go much faster. Not much time for tweaking things.  

               Joe.  

[bob in the woods]

Workman like manner- so I've heard.  The inside surface of trigger guards as an example often show file marks.  If they made the barrel and the lock I'll bet you could double those times. ie 200 hours??  I made one [ 1 ] lock, and used a Siler tumbler in the process, and it still took me pretty close to 40 hours just to finish it.

[omark]

Workman like manner- so I've heard.  The inside surface of trigger guards as an example often show file marks.  If they made the barrel and the lock I'll bet you could double those times. ie 200 hours??  I made one [ 1 ] lock, and used a Siler tumbler in the process, and it still took me pretty close to 40 hours just to finish it.

im betting it wouldnt take you that long to do a second, though.     mark

[sz]

There are too many variables here to give a pat answer.
Build a Jim Chambers kit and don’t carve it or engrave it at all, I’d have to say I’d have about 40 hours in it.
However, I build most of my guns from blanks of wood and commercially available barrels and locks.
I would have to say I have about 100 hours in a simple gun like and about 200-250 in a fancy gun
If I am building a high-end Jaeger with chiseled metal, it takes me about 500 hours.  It it’s steel mounted I’d add about 50 hours more.
Add gold work and you can bring it up another 40 hours.
Silver wire can be anywhere from 2 to 150 hours.
If I hand make a lock, add another 150 hours.
If I hand make a barrel including rifling, add another 80 hours.
Make my own castings; add about 30-40 hours

So as you can see, asking how long it take to make a gun is like asking how long it takes to build a building.

A skid shed is not a long term project.

The Tajmahal and Westminster Abby both took longer.

[Tenn Hills Guy]

Agreed, my question was too generalized, but, you have provided some quantative data.  I like your estimates for the individual elements. Guess the point is when one decides to build a rifle, most of us probably don't give much thought to the amountof time we'll spend.  At the outset, I said scratch build.  That meant to me rough out the stock, make the lock, triggers etc.  For my current project, a swivel breech, I made the lock system, bought castings for furniture and the barrels, everything else hand made.  While it's a labor of love, I doubt I will ever build another SB.   

[Ryan McNabb]

Agreed, my question was too generalized, but, you have provided some quantative data.  I like your estimates for the individual elements. Guess the point is when one decides to build a rifle, most of us probably don't give much thought to the amountof time we'll spend.  At the outset, I said scratch build.  That meant to me rough out the stock, make the lock, triggers etc.  For my current project, a swivel breech, I made the lock system, bought castings for furniture and the barrels, everything else hand made.  While it's a labor of love, I doubt I will ever build another SB.   

No, nor did many of the makers back in the day.  You've chosen a particularly ticklish mechanism to start counting hours on. 

I have built rifles from the blank in 3 long shop days, but they were tiring days, and that didn't include finishing, which started on the 4th day.  And I only did it twice.  Hand inlet barrels and investment castings (investment castings for TG and BP will save hours of work).  Very simple carving - lock panels, forestock molding, cheekpiece molding, etc.  I felt very much "in the zone" when I did it.  Very zen...very meditative. 

One thing: turn the cell phone off.  Beastly things, cell phones.

[Acer Saccharum]

How many years should I expect marriage to take?  When I have kids, when will they be grown up and independent?

How long will it take a one legged grasshopper to kick the seeds out of a dill pickle?

I have found it can take 150 to an infinite number of hours, depending on the project. But I am not doing this professionally. The pro's won't say because then everyone will know what they get paid per hour. I am guessing a guy like Ian Pratt might make around three dollars an hour. Allen Martin, maybe four, if he builds as fast as he talks.

There are so many variables, it's impossible (for me) to quantify. Got good tools, got good workshop practices, are able to dedicate big chunks of the the project at hand? Then you can probably do things in a timely manner.

All that said, I don't even try to keep track of the time. Since I am not a pro, it's pointless.

Tom

[bob in the woods]

One thing I'd like to add. I'm a luthier. When people see my instruments, or visit the shop,guess what the #1 question is!  How long does it take. I think it an obsession of our time. Patience is a lost art in this modern world of ours. Sometimes the wood co-operates; sometimes it doesn't.  Best to measure time in weeks rather than hours.

[northmn]

I am currently going at about one gun for two years.  As a hobbyist I work on them when I am in the mood.  Also make fewer mistqakes that way as compared to trying to speed up for production.  "The Hurrider I get the more behinder I become" is not all wrong.  I got the 1/2 stock fowler completed in about 5 months, but can see it in the work.  I am hunting on and off with a half stock flinter that is left in the rough so that I can finish it off this winter.  The finish work is what fools you.  I have heard about 200 hours for an estimate on building and like others question building what   You are about half done when the thing is shootable if you are going to carve and engrave.  On a plain Tennessee I can build one fairly quickly.  I ahve been working on a carved rifle for some time now.

DP

[Cody Tetachuk]

I find that many people, when estimating, over-estimate the time they spend building a rifle. I used to "guess" that it took 500-1000 hours. One day, many years ago, I decided to keep track. I'm not very experienced and therefore feel that I am considerably slower that most and the end result is that, building from a blank that has the barrel inlet and RR groove/hole done, it took me 155 hours of actual building time, including design and layout to build the rifle using commercial lock and triggers, TG and BP castings, commercial RR pipes, screws and sights. Patch box and inlays (cheek and toe and escutcheon) were hand made and the rifle was relief carved and engraved. I'm not saying that it was done WELL, just that it took 155 hours (over 3 or 4 months) building at my usual comfortable pace.

[Tenn Hills Guy]

I'm, I guess, a 'moody' hobbyist builder.  I try to build what I can't really afford to go buy.  I go to my 'Laughin' Place' ( my Grandkids understand this) to work and the hours vanish.  If I'm P.O.'d about something, and feeling aggressive, I pick up the biggest file, and turn on the grinder, and attack steel.  If I'm peaceful, maybe I pick up the little carver and stroke the wood.  Sometimes, just needing to not really think about anything, it's polishin' time.  Sometime I 'rough out' what I'm makin' and 'pose' it by the fireplace and just study it to see where I want to go next. I've been known to let a year go by while I decide what to do next.  It's a rewarding hobby, and when I finish something.....it actually does something! I may shoot it once and put it in the locker.  I feel sorry for my kids today who seem content to sit and text message!  My two sons compete to see who has the latest @!*% cellphone.

[Dphariss]

Historically its going to depend on the parts being shop made vs purchased.
Buying the lock and barrel (as a tube most likely) would greatly reduce the build time.
It was possible even in colonial times to buy buttplates and TGs  as well it seems. In talking to Reaves Goerhring last week about an early Dickert buttplate he sent his #10 Virginia plate which he says he found on an early Dickert as well. I suspect that there was a lot more of this than we might expect when we want to believe that people were laboriously forging and casting all the parts. Not saying they did not saying there were alternatives.
So if the smith bought many parts the time to build might be a far less than if the parts were all made in shop.
I would point out the various inventories of the gunstocking shop at Christian Springs shows no casting equipment in 1762. Other inventories of stock show things such as.
"15 English rifle barrels"
"15 locks for above"
"10 1/2 pounds of brass gun mounts/sets of mounts".

So were these brass parts purchased or cast at Christian Springs?

Then is 1766 we find more forging tools such as a die for "cock, screw and top jaw".
This from "Moravian Gun Makers of the American Revolution"

I think research of the subject will show that there was a mix of buying and making parts. If the time frame allowed or if the ready made parts were in stock they were used if the parts were not available and were needed now I suspect that most trained gun makers were capable of making the necessary parts.
The next question would be were there apprentices around to file and polish parts? Was the stock rough shaped or did the shop cut it from a plank? Was this done 3 months ahead when things were slow so they did rough work ahead?
The numbers of "gunstock blanks" in various woods listed indicates a lot of gun making or they were selling blanks?
Dan

[Mike R]

The only one I kept track of was my first--166 hours give or take an hour. It was made with lock, triggers and barrel bought 'ready made' [barrel needed breeching & finishing of course] and the stock was a blank but had the ramrod hole drilled and barrel channel roughed out.  This was a learning gun with a mentor pointing out what to do, etc.  It had a patchbox, all hardware [sideplate, entry tube, etc] and minor carving. The brass parts needed filing and polishing.  From this I'd estimate an accomplished maker could do the same job in probably ~100 hrs. Add many more hours if fancy carving and metal engraving were done [I later engraved the patch box lid--not counted in my 166]. I made this rifle with all hand tools with the exception of a drill press for critical holes [which I had to borrow time on as I did not own one].  The 166 does not count all the coats of hand-rubbed oil finish on the aqua fortis colored maple.  I don't know how much your time is worth, but it taught me a good lesson about value of hand-made items.  I do not typically complain about the cost of a handmade rifle!

[Roger Fisher]

Jeez, I don't want to know.  I want to play at this not make a job outta it

[Mike Brooks]

With the barrel inlett I can build one of my "Liberty" guns from a blank in about 20 hours. Average gun takes about 40 - 60 hours. I can go as long as abot 90 to 100 hours before I completely loose intrest in the projeect.

[t.caster]

I can build a Shimmel in 40-60 hrs, but my regular pre-Revs take about 110-120 hrs. Most all my rifles are mechanically shootable by 40hrs, the rest is time for decoration and finishing up.

[flintriflesmith]

You guys are FAST!

I would take me almost thirty minutes just to hand file the body and threads for a single wood screw. 

It all comes down to what you mean by "build." Yea, I know that wood screws could be purchased in the 18th century if the gunsmith happened to live in a place where they were available but a goodly number of rifles have ones that were obviously hand made. Always made me wonder how much George Eister must have hated his apprentices if he had them make all those screws for his patch boxes.

Someday the terms like "handmade," "built from scratch," "hand crafted," etc. need to be defined! I tried to encourage the CLA to do it when I was the president and most everyone thought it was a can of worms not worth opening!

Gary

[chuck-ia]

flintriflesmith, It is interesting how one defines built, built from scratch, hand crafted. I know a guy who says he built, his T.C. Hawken, when all he actually did was pretty much slop a coat of varnish on it. Anyway back to the original post, some of you can build a rifle in 60 hours, you guys probably know exactly what you are doing, I have more than 60 hours in the trigger guard, trigger, trigger plate, butt plate alone, this is a simple trade gun I am building. So, on top of that I have inletting the barrel by hand, inletting the lock , drilling the ram rod hole, shaping the stock. I would guess I am around 300 hours on this gun. Geez, I am slow. I don't care though, this is my hobby and I enjoy doing it. I really don't see how one can make a living at building guns, (unless the wife has a good job, or you really don't need the money). You guys that do make a living building guns have all my respect. chuck

[Ryan McNabb]

You guys that do make a living building guns have all my respect. chuck

It helps if you don't pay taxes, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

[Hank*in*WV]

Didn't know Charley Rangel built muzzleloaders.