Who color case-hardens?

[JB2]

Watching Brentd's Hawken build since he's about a half-step ahead of my build (thanks Brent).  Color case-hardening came up, with great pics, BTW.  One source was mentioned, just wondering if there are others.  Also, is this something I should try myself?  Probably not.   I did see a reference to faux color case a few years ago.  I'll dig out that book and get some feedback. 

My breech was already fitted to the barrel, so probably only get the tang, hammer and lock plate done, if it gets done.

Thanks guys.

[Dphariss]

Needs to be done by someone with experience in any case.

Dan

[fm tim]

Turnbull Mfg. Co.
Phone: 585-657-6338; Fax: 585-657-7743
6680 Route 5 & 20
Mailing Address: PO Box 471
Bloomfield, NY 14469

Probably pricey, but probably the best.
They rebuild antique rifles (Winchesters in particular) and pistols.  Often used for fine shotguns.

[Roger B]

I think Ballard still case colors for the public.
Roger B.

[Acer Saccharum]

Fred Heinzelman & Sons,
Heinzelman Heat Treating LLC
790 Washington Avenue
Carlstadt, NJ 07072-3008

They color cased a Sharps action and a rear ladder style sight for me years ago. Reasonable.

[westbj2]

Don Menck used to do my color hardening before his illness, did some looking around when Don was no longer able and have been using Mike Hunter.  Nice work and quick turnaround.   
http://www.hunterrestorations.com/
Jim Westberg

[keweenaw]

You always have to fit the breech to the barrel before it get cased, just take it off.  I've been doing some color case hardening for others but usually just locks.  Make sure you find someone who does charcoal pack hardening and not cyanide coloring as the latter looks totally inappropriate.  Turnbull does great work.  He did the coloring on an Alex Henry rifle for me including the breech, standing breech, lock, trigger plate and trigger.  I think that was about $350.  I will say this that Turnbull doesn't put much depth of case on, basically just enough to color it.  

Tom

[BrentD]

Classic Guns in Illinois is fast and reliable (and googlable).  I do like the cooler colors of Kilby's however.  

Recently I have hear that this person www.danthegunman.com would be very good and capable of dealing with the thin parts of muzzleloaders (not sure if that is a valid concern but I worry about it).  

There are many other choices and I have seen may really well done case colored single shots in recent years.  These are good times for this sort of thing.  

JB2 - no reason you can't pull your breech plug and have that done too.  

Brent

[SPG]

JB2,

Wyoming Armory- 307-527-4570

Keith Kilby has a lot of experience with delicate muzzle loading parts.

Steve.

[44-henry]

It's not overly difficult to do if you have the proper equipment and time to play around with the process. I've done a lot of it over the last couple years and have my students do it on parts of the model steam engines they build in my class. I've had very few of them get bad results if they follow the instructions carefully. That being said there is always the possiblity of parts warping and other safety issues, I personally would recommend sending them to someone like Turnbull.

[Dphariss]

It's not overly difficult to do if you have the proper equipment and time to play around with the process. I've done a lot of it over the last couple years and have my students do it on parts of the model steam engines they build in my class. I've had very few of them get bad results if they follow the instructions carefully. That being said there is always the possiblity of parts warping and other safety issues, I personally would recommend sending them to someone like Turnbull.

Case hardening breeches needs to be done by someone with experience.

There is a post or two on this subject in the Hawken breech thread

[JB2]

Wow!  Spent the day in the garage getting ready for our first 'snow event', and now there's almost a dozen replies.  Cool!

Brent- yes, I could pull the breech, but I can already feel myself screwing up the nice color case on re-installation.  Maybe I can talk myself out of that 'fubar' before I get to that point.

Thanks for all the info guys. 

[BrentD]

If you can get it off okay, you can get it back on. 

[Tom Cooper]

I do it,
before the site moved the first time Jerry Huddleston gave information on the subject freely, he is a true master builder and taught many to do the process, but the rules changed with the move and some folks were pushed along.

[44-henry]

Here is a short video I shot of the process that I have students do.



Here is a photo of some test parts I did awhile back



Like I said earlier, the process is not all that difficult with some practice and the right equipment. The concern about workng on a breechplug is well founded, but I guess you could say the same thing about most aspects of gunsmithing. Done incorrectly, or with the wrong materials you could very well end up with warped parts or parts that are far to brittle.  I can tell you that a lot of the material that has been written about this proces is flat wrong, but there is good info out there and Jerry provided some of the best.

[JB2]

Thanks again for all the info, guys.  From the sound of things, you guys have used to 'smiths mentioned, and that was what I was looking for, real recommendations.  With Classic Guns in IL less than 30 mins. from me, I'll find time later this week to drop in there and see if they want the work. 

My mother-in-law will be so disappointed, she was hoping I'd buy a kiln. (ceramics.)

[T*O*F]

JB2
Here's an example of Classic Guns work on a Davis "Alex Henry" lock built by Bob Roller.

[JB2]

Dang it guys, my Hawken was supposed to be a working gun.  If I make it look like all these 'purty' guns, I'll be afraid to touch it or take it out of the house!  It'll shore be easy on the eyes tho'!

[FlintFan]

Here is a short video I shot of the process that I have students do.



Here is a photo of some test parts I did awhile back



Like I said earlier, the process is not all that difficult with some practice and the right equipment. The concern about workng on a breechplug is well founded, but I guess you could say the same thing about most aspects of gunsmithing. Done incorrectly, or with the wrong materials you could very well end up with warped parts or parts that are far to brittle.  I can tell you that a lot of the material that has been written about this proces is flat wrong, but there is good info out there and Jerry provided some of the best.

Absolutely beautiful colors!  These would look very appropriate on antique gun parts.  IMHO the reds, purples, browns on your color cased parts would look much better on an old gun than the harsh bright blues you see on many modern guns that are color cased.  What was your ratio of wood to bone charcoal to achieve these lovely colors?   

[BrentD]

Interesting how everyone has different ideas of the perfect colors.  I like the very cool blues that are on Dan's pistol colored by Keith Kilby at Wyoming Armory.  The deep super warm colors are not as desirable to me. 

It's all about aesthetics and there can't be a best answer for everyone. 

[Dphariss]

Interesting how everyone has different ideas of the perfect colors.  I like the very cool blues that are on Dan's pistol colored by Keith Kilby at Wyoming Armory.  The deep super warm colors are not as desirable to me. 

It's all about aesthetics and there can't be a best answer for everyone. 

Kieth can reduce the brilliance after the quench if a muted look is wanted. I have had  at least 7 locks and several breeches done by Kieth and have never had one warped or changed in any way other than much better looking and faster due to the slick surfaces.

Dan

[BrentD]

I wonder how much faster the lock would be with case colors - probably not measurably but maybe Larry could measure this directly (hint )

Dan, do you have all the lock parts hardened?

[David Rase]

BrentD,
When I case color harden I throw in all the lock parts, screws, bridles, cocks, frizzens etc.

DMR

[44-henry]

Flintfan,
I was using a 50/50 ratio of bone to wood on the test parts shown. We have tried a lot of other ratios, but that seems to be the mix that I keep going back to.

[Dphariss]

I wonder how much faster the lock would be with case colors - probably not measurably but maybe Larry could measure this directly (hint )

Dan, do you have all the lock parts hardened?

I just do the lockplate cock and top jaw. The internals I can do since color is not needed there and hardened and polished looks better. Frizzen I do myself and then draw back since I like the anneal the pan cover area to blue anyway.
A casehardened part is about as friction free as a steel part can get without bearings.
But only timing as Larry does it could really tell.

Dan