Author Topic: Bag carry  (Read 6437 times)

Offline Pete G.

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Bag carry
« on: December 04, 2010, 02:55:13 AM »
Looking through Jim Webb's book on Southern Appalachian pouches and I ran across the statement that most bags were carried on the left side. It caught my eye because that's where mine feels the most natural so that I can hold my measure, ramrod, etc with my right hand. Somehow I was under the impression that most right handers carried their bags on the right, but here is a statement to the contrary. Is this a regional characteristic possibly?

Black Hand

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Re: Bag carry
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2010, 03:23:52 AM »
I have not read the book, but with buckles one cannot determine whether carried on the right or left, as some like buckles in the front and others in the back.

I would agree that most would carry the bag on the side which lent itself to ease of use....

smorrison

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Re: Bag carry
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2010, 03:53:34 AM »
The bag I recently had Jeff Bibb make for me is for a left side carry.  I shoot right handed, but pour with my left and the horn will hang with the bag.

Scott

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Bag carry
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2010, 04:03:12 AM »
Looking through Jim Webb's book on Southern Appalachian pouches and I ran across the statement that most bags were carried on the left side. It caught my eye because that's where mine feels the most natural so that I can hold my measure, ramrod, etc with my right hand. Somehow I was under the impression that most right handers carried their bags on the right, but here is a statement to the contrary. Is this a regional characteristic possibly?

I think its silliness.
How would anyone actually know at this date? From surviving pouches? Maybe 1% of the pouches survive. Its not enough for a sample.

All the folks who will tell us that the rifles were primed from the main horn need to try priming a RH rifle with the horn on the left. Just for giggles. Is it harder or easier?
Maybe I will go and hang one of mine backwards and see if I can prime easily from the main horn on the left.
Left and right hand horns is another ROTF. The horn is MADE left or right hand by the person that makes the horn.
I shot MLs for decades and made horns before I learned on the WWW that you needed a "right" horn to make a "right" powder horn. ::)

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

BrownBear

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Re: Bag carry
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2010, 06:45:23 AM »
I'm a lefty, and for over 30 years I've carried a camera bag under my right elbow.  It's just natural, because the right hand can fetch gear while the left does the work.  As a result all my early shooting bags were on my right side.  It still feels more "natural" to carry them there after so many years of training.

But man, how awkward when loading a muzzleloader!  My right hand is tied up holding the rifle, and I had to swap back and forth about ninetyleven times in order to fetch stuff with my right hand.

I finally smarted up and built a bag to wear under my left arm.  Halleluya!  No more muzzleswapping, and suddenly loading is easier.

Recently I grabbed one of those older bags and headed out with a flinter.  And you guessed right.  When it came time to prime with the horn, it brought to mind the monkey and the football.  I couldn't do it.  I could get away with using a righty bag with a capper, but no way on a left handed flinter. 

All my right-side bags are now officially retired.

Offline axelp

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Re: Bag carry
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2010, 05:15:32 PM »
To complicate matters further, I am lefthanded, right eye dominant. For years I shot lefthanded, then just two years ago, I learned to shoot right handed to take advantage of the right eye dominance. I used to carry my bag and horn on my leftside, then I went to bag on right, horn on left, and now I have both horn and bag on right. Now I used ot be pretty fast at loaidng but now am a clumsy awkward loader. My loading habits are so confused... I need to practice more... but I got very used to priming a right handed rifle with my left hand. sneaking the horn over the offside of the lock became comfortable... But now I am re-learning myself to pour from the right as I like having my bag and horn on the same side.... luckily my life is not dependent upon loading fast or I would already be buried in a shallow grave somewhere....

Ken
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Online James Rogers

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Re: Bag carry
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2010, 05:42:07 PM »
I believe the author prefaces his remarks in the book that these are observations of the items he has examined over the years. I do not believe any dogmatic statements are being made one way or the other about ALL pouches ever used by mankind but only those examined.  A lot of the old southron bags had a cutaway flap which could clearly show the side it was used on regardless of a buckle location. Attached horns give it away even more. We are not talking about the elusive 18th century pouch but 19th and 20th century pouches. Jim could converse with old timers who had actually been third generation users of some of these things.

No matter how "silly" (a much overused degrading descriptive) some may think it is, I am thankful we can still make observations on "1%" of the leftovers.


Offline Dphariss

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Re: Bag carry
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2010, 06:53:05 PM »
I have a horn on a thong. I can put in on the left side if I want.
Following the wisdom of those who swear there were no priming horns (  ::) ) I gave it a try its !@*%&@ clumsy to prime a RH rifle with LH hung horn. Yeah I have not done it enough to get practiced up but why would I.
NOTE: I really don't care how someone hangs his horn.
Everyone now, like everyone then has their own ideas. So before reading below and getting all wadded up remember, that like Sam Hawken said ... no matter the sights he put on a rifle it seemed the owner changed them in one way or another.

So this is a your mileage my vary thing. Left handed shooters can ignore this completely if they like since they are, after all left handed.

The problem arises when new people with no experience start reading stuff written by people who have looked at a lot of old stuff it seems but NEVER PUT THINGS INTO PRACTICE.
I know, for example, that the reason pouches have buckles is that a pouch needs to be hung short for horseback use and a little longer for on foot.
I see no sense what so ever in a separate horn pouch, its a good way, under stress, to end up with one and not the other. Never mind the extra hangy thingy moving around. But folks can do what they like and always have.
Hunting from a deer blind is different that belly crawling for 100 yards trying to get a shot.
I do not remember a right handed shooter wearing his pouch on the left. Everyone one I know and can remember hangs it on the right. If right handed.
A fairly long knife, for the right hander, is easier drawn from the left side as well and the knife, if you were in a situation where getting the knife out might save your life having it handy to get out would be complicated by having the pouch and/or horn in the way. But of course most folks never have this cross their mind.
Try riding a horse with a long knife on the right for right hand draw.
Its why swords and such were worn for cross draw.
See http://www.1st-art-gallery.com/Alonzo-Chappel/Portrait-Of-Daniel-Morgan-%281736-1802%29.html
I suspect that this outfit is "typical" and the person depicted likely owned his own pouch and horn. Of course its just a portrait not a photo but its "right" from my experience.
Horn on the pouch strap right hand carry.
Then we have the survivor thing.
Some will tell us that the surviving rifles are ones the got little or no use. Would this not apply to surviving pouches? Most of which have rotted away or were pitched in the garbage at least 100 years ago. Every man in the Militia, for example, would have had a horn and likely a pouch, how many were there from say 1750 to 1850 and where did they all go?  Were there, not counting the people who were not in the militia, a million such horns and how many shot pouches? We could have entire areas of the country where there is not viable representative pieces of horns or pouches.
Heck most of what we see from the the later periods may be something made up for some 10 year old kid who inherited some old ML and used it for a few years.

Here is a little snippet from the not so distant past. People used to by Colt SAs belt holster and all then separating the gun and the leather, tossing the leather in a box perhaps for sale at the next gun show. But a few people saw these as valuable and they are. See the book "Packing Iron". Many of the holsters shown are in a collection of a man I know who got them for basically nothing since the Colt collectors considered them to be so much refuse.

BTW if the horn is not attached to the pouch how does one determine if it were left or right handed pouch? Are they marked R or L?
I am not saying that EVERYONE right handed wore right handed pouch/horn.
But its a pretty good bet.
From MY perspective, horn sellers, for example, telling people that they should use horns left handed since 1/2 the horns are "left handed" at best are COMPLETELY CLUELESS in my opinion. How the horn is attached determines how the curve fits the body.


Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

BrownBear

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Re: Bag carry
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2010, 07:43:29 PM »
From MY perspective, horn sellers, for example, telling people that they should use horns left handed since 1/2 the horns are "left handed" at best are COMPLETELY CLUELESS in my opinion. How the horn is attached determines how the curve fits the body.
Ah man, you just broke my heart.... I figured I was the only person in the world who had figured out how to attach a horn so it rode fine on the "wrong" side.  ;D

Offline Pete G.

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Re: Bag carry
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2010, 07:55:27 PM »
I do prime my RH rifle from the horn on the left and it's not really a problem at all. Perhaps it is like an old friend I have who shoots a RH bolt rifle left handed. He would merely reach over the rifle and operate the bolt and could shoot a timed fire string with the best. Undoubtedly there are better ways of doing things, but with time you can become fairly proficient. Of course my life doesn't depend on, so that's a bit different story.

Now I am wondering about those few drawings and descriptions we have of wearing a horn with the spout to the rear. It was supposedly to facilitate loading while on the run, but that would necessitate priming the RH rifle by reaching over the barrel, just like using a horn on the left; either that or swapping hands with the rifle, which doesn't seem like a good idea either. Of course now we are in the realm or warfare and not ordinary day to day wear or hunting. I carry my rifle in a way different fashin while hunting that my son carried his while hunting in Fallujah.

BrownBear

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Re: Bag carry
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2010, 08:41:43 PM »
Now I am wondering about those few drawings and descriptions we have of wearing a horn with the spout to the rear.

Here's another possibility.  Try loading a rifle while lying down, as would happen if a guy was taking cover behind a log or something.  Holy cow!  I used to do all my duck hunting with a ML, reloading while sitting flat on the ground or in some cases reclining.  In retrospect, filling the measure would have been lots easier with the "nozzle" down.  Live and learn... Eventually!  ;D

Offline LRB

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Re: Bag carry
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2010, 02:43:17 AM »
  Brown Bear, that is exactly what I've thought about for a few years now, but I wear lefty. Right side carry is the best, looking at it as being more practical, but I am too old to break a lot of bad habits. My left hand has always been able to do some things better than my right, and digging in my bag, and pouring powder in my measure is two of those things. I pour from left, then dump from my right, while my rifle is cradled under my right shoulder. I started that way in the early 70's, and just cannot make the switch, even knowing it would be more practical.

BrownBear

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Re: Bag carry
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2010, 09:04:35 AM »
  Brown Bear, that is exactly what I've thought about for a few years now, but I wear lefty. Right side carry is the best, looking at it as being more practical, but I am too old to break a lot of bad habits. My left hand has always been able to do some things better than my right, and digging in my bag, and pouring powder in my measure is two of those things. I pour from left, then dump from my right, while my rifle is cradled under my right shoulder. I started that way in the early 70's, and just cannot make the switch, even knowing it would be more practical.

You've sure got it right on the bad habits!  Egad.

I learned on thing with all this shifting and shuffling.  I always admired "fowler" type bags with integral game loops, and finally got around to making one.  What a mistake for left side carry!  The weight of several snowshoe hares made left side carry distinctly uncomfortable, even as the hares always seemed to be in the way.  In short order I cut off the game loops.  I've since made an arrangement of game loops that hang from a shoulder strap, and it feels perfectly natural to carry the hares on my right side while the bag is on my left.  I'm not even aware of their weight, and they never seem to be in the way.  Go figure!   ::)