45cal Accuracy Loads

[Gene Carrell]

I have spent most of my ML in recent years devoted to long range with Rigby sporting rifle or a Parker-Hale Whitworth rifle. I will continue  as best I can. I have macular degen in both eyes and it now interfers with this shooting. So now I am about to go in a new direction. I am preping a rifle, built by Jim Klein, to use on the silhouette range at Friendship. This will require shots to 200yds at steel knockdowns.

The  rifle is a  flinter with 45cal Rice, flat-bottomed rifled B- weight bbl at 42". I would expect that one sight/sight picture is not going to work on targets 50 to 200 yds. Maybe not even one powder charge. I am asking for suggestions regarding  an approach to this undertaking. As Indiana weather will permit, I will be putting in range time, either  nearby at 100yds, or down at Friendship with longer ranges  available. This style of shooting as well as flintlocks are somewhat new to me. I have been in the camp of "shoot tight, shoot clean" and "shoot  one shot dirty all day". I hopr that this will work in our typical wet June Shoot weather. Am I making this too complicated? Where to start?

[bob in the woods]

I assume we are talking patched round ball ?  Anyway, having shot in 200 yd matches, I'd  not pick a .45 as first choice. I'd rather my .54    But I did have a .45 that liked 90 gr. 2Fand a .445 ball with Windshield W. lubed  22 thous. patch.   As for sights, mine is setup so that the base of the front fits the rear notch at 200 yds.    Is this an offhand match?   Just curious about the B weight swamped barrel. Most of the guns I've seen on the 200 yd line here have 1 in straight oct. barrels. 

[ERH]

Just my opinion but I would think about a bigger caliber . You will have a lot of trouble with knock down targets . You will not have trouble hitting them but they will not fall down. just ring and that don't count. I shot 440 ball 20ths patch and 90 grains of 3 f  and any thing that was over a 100 yards and heavy steel dint fall . my 54 cal does much better

[Gene Carrell]

Yes  to the offhand match. I am using the  45cal because I have it and no other  real use  for it  at the moment. It was not originally built as a competition rifle; it replicates  an original that Homer Dangler owned  at one  time, attributed to somewhere in Virginia. If I cannot get to work, I have a great 50cal that I can go with. It has a 15/16 straight 41.5" bbl and  will keep shots at 50yd all in one enlarged hole with 65gr 2Fg. I really want to try the 45 because  it fits nice and feels  good.

[Daryl]

I assume we are talking patched round ball ?  Anyway, having shot in 200 yd matches, I'd  not pick a .45 as first choice. I'd rather my .54    But I did have a .45 that liked 90 gr. 2Fand a .445 ball with Windshield W. lubed  22 thous. patch.   As for sights, mine is setup so that the base of the front fits the rear notch at 200 yds.    Is this an offhand match?   Just curious about the B weight swamped barrel. Most of the guns I've seen on the 200 yd line here have 1 in straight oct. barrels. 

Bob's .45 results mirror mine - except mine also liked 75gr. 3F.  80gr.3F did not change the accuracy - nor did 90gr. 2F from my normal 75gr. 3F and 85gr. 2F.

These loads start the .45 out fast and give the flatest of trajectories, but - due to the round ball's rapid velocity loss it will be about useless for knocking down steel at 150yards, let alone 200 - I think.  A ball starting out at 2,200fps will be travelling about 1,075fps at 150yards and about  940fps at 200.  Whether it has the impetus to knock over a steel target at those range, remains to be show.

On our trail walk, hanging targets are moved quite well at 100 yards by the .45's - compared to the .40's and .32, of course. Due to the smaller charges I've been able to use with water-based lubes, I suspect the velocity is about 1,900fps mv, so the 100 yard impact speed is about 1,154fps.  I'm quite certain that will not knock over a standard 40 pound ram, but I expect a chicken or pig, if not hit at the base, would fall.

[Keb]

I use 102 gr. of 1 1/2f Swiss with a + .001 bore size paper patched .448 x 535 gr. bullet for 1000 yds. in a Gibbs rifle.
Shoots surprisingly well at that distance. It shoots 8" high at 100 yds. with the rear sight set at it's lowest setting. Muzzle velocity is a tad over 1300 fps near the muzzle. Don't know what it slows to on the other end. :/ Can you say artillery?

[Gene Carrell]

The targets are not standard NRA Silhouette  targets, in fact  the NMLRA has indicated in their literature that a 45cal with 60gr of powder should  tip them.
Keb, I am very familiar with  loads for  1000yd shooting  in both Rigby's and Whitworth's; however, this is  roundball shooting.
I  am more interested in how to compensate for the  various  ranges to be shot, 50,  100, 150, 175 and  200 yards.  (Vary sight picture, vary  rear sights (seen this), vary loads or a combination.
Thanks to all for load data, it  gives me starting points.

[Daryl]

Gene - express sights might be an option.

[bob in the woods]

Ref; sights.  My rear sight is fixed. Wide square notch. Front sight is as follows-50 yds,  right down in the notch.Just shows against a slight cut in the bottom of the rear notch.  100 yds- front level with the rear wings.  150=  Front 1/2 up from the rear [ there is a white mark on my front to help with repeatability.
200-  frontbase is lined up inthe rear.
This works pretty well for me.
Frankly, I don't vary the powder because I know that my rifle shoots well with it's normal load, but did lower from 100 to 80 gr for the 50 yds  since there wasn't any difference at that short range.
My usual rifle for this type of shooting is a .54  under hammer  1 inch oct straight Green Mountain barrel .

[Wolf Eyes]

I assume we are talking patched round ball ?  Anyway, having shot in 200 yd matches, I'd  not pick a .45 as first choice. I'd rather my .54    But I did have a .45 that liked 90 gr. 2Fand a .445 ball with Windshield W. lubed  22 thous. patch.   As for sights, mine is setup so that the base of the front fits the rear notch at 200 yds.    Is this an offhand match?   Just curious about the B weight swamped barrel. Most of the guns I've seen on the 200 yd line here have 1 in straight oct. barrels. 

Bob, is the 22 thous. compressed thickness?

[bob in the woods]

When measuring patching, I use my vernier, and try to be consistent . I don't squish it, so I'd have to say that it's 22 thou. as is ie no compression.

[Dphariss]

The targets are not standard NRA Silhouette  targets, in fact  the NMLRA has indicated in their literature that a 45cal with 60gr of powder should  tip them.
Keb, I am very familiar with  loads for  1000yd shooting  in both Rigby's and Whitworth's; however, this is  roundball shooting.
I  am more interested in how to compensate for the  various  ranges to be shot, 50,  100, 150, 175 and  200 yards.  (Vary sight picture, vary  rear sights (seen this), vary loads or a combination.
Thanks to all for load data, it  gives me starting points.

Find the most accurate load and use it for all ranges. Also note that what appears OK at 50 or even 100 might be disappointing at 200.
I would still use a 50-54 no matter what the NMLRA says. Using a minimum caliber in silhouette will result in lost targets sooner or later.
I would probably use my 16 bore, not necessarily for power but for how it handles longer distances.

Dan

[Gene Carrell]

I  agree with everyone regarding  the  choice of caliber, but my thoughts are contention with the wind that presents itself about relay 3 or 4 every day. This said, 45cal is what I have for  now.
Bob, I appreciate your insight regarding sights as well as  45  loads. It sounds like you have overcome some of the perceived difficulties of 50-200yd matches. I am going to see what I mat set up similar to your sights.
Daryl, I always appreciate reading your load thoughts and express sights may be an option. I've a set aside waiting for a home (I made them for an Ingram bbl, .577, that may become the basis for a stalking rifle.) I also have an option of using a set of Fred Lipp's rear  sights the rear sight  mounted on the barrel is also a base for various height sights to dovetail and lock on.
Dan, I also derive from the  conversation that the most  promising  load for possibly all ranges will be my best 200yd load. I think I will plan spending time down at Friendship this winter.
Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful experience-based suggestions. That is one of the greatest benefits of this forum.

[Daryl]

Dan's spot-on as to using the same load for all ranges, imho, of course.  I do this with all rifles, except for the .69 as I use it occasionally on the odd trail walk.  People I shoot with complain a bit with the heavy long range loads, but I'm sure my shoulder certainly would if I used 140gr. just for all the close range targets, like the 10 yard card-split.  I find a piddling 3 drams of 2F splits the cards just fine.

[Dphariss]

I  agree with everyone regarding  the  choice of caliber, but my thoughts are contention with the wind that presents itself about relay 3 or 4 every day. This said, 45cal is what I have for  now.
Bob, I appreciate your insight regarding sights as well as  45  loads. It sounds like you have overcome some of the perceived difficulties of 50-200yd matches. I am going to see what I mat set up similar to your sights.
Daryl, I always appreciate reading your load thoughts and express sights may be an option. I've a set aside waiting for a home (I made them for an Ingram bbl, .577, that may become the basis for a stalking rifle.) I also have an option of using a set of Fred Lipp's rear  sights the rear sight  mounted on the barrel is also a base for various height sights to dovetail and lock on.
Dan, I also derive from the  conversation that the most  promising  load for possibly all ranges will be my best 200yd load. I think I will plan spending time down at Friendship this winter.
Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful experience-based suggestions. That is one of the greatest benefits of this forum.

You will likely find that 200 yards is a PITA with a RB. Like the 22 RF at 200 they tend to do strange things. My 22 rf at 200 experience is lacking but friends have experience and report that the wind causes the little slugs to apparently do spirals on the way to the target in the wind and this can result in a x-wind producing both downwind bullet strikes and UPWIND bullet strikes making reading the wind tough and my shooting at 200 with a 54 shows that if you can feel the breeze on your cheek the ball starts to get a "strange". I am sure my .67 caliber rifle is not as finicky in this but its also twice the ball weight.
I would do most shooting at 100 and 150 then test at 200. Trying to do actual load development at 200 in anything but zero wind could be frustrating with a 45.

Dan

[Daryl]

When Taylor and I shot the 200 yard match last year, we were lucky- only about 3" of drift,which was consistant.  It would take a big bore to do load development at that range.

[hanshi]

I'm pretty green with long range shooting but in my .45 using 70grns of 3f does really well at 100yds.  Going to 80 (which is very accurate) shows no improvement.  I've since settled on 70grns for the heavy load in that rifle.

[smylee grouch]

I have an original perc. 45 that Jim Goodieon freshed out for me and it does real well with 60 gr. 3f swiss. Taken several deer with it and one was around 100 yds. It groups well with this load and 20/1000 patch and 445 ball.    Gary

[Leatherbelly]

  I like a 100yd zero for all rifles. I pick a range (like 100yd) for an effective kill range that I feel confident with. Then I either hold under at close range or (you'll like this one!), bury my front site half the length of the blade in the rear notch for 50 yds., just see the tip of the blade in the notch at 25 yds. This using my 100yd charge.(75gr. 2Fg in a .50) For two hundred, a guy will have to experiment. But a guess for mine would be, hold the front sight fully proud of the rear notch, tip of the sight center and let rip!
 After reading your post again, for knock down silhouettes, I think the boys are right. A larger caliber would do a better job. But what the hey! try it out, maybe aim for the  top of those big ones at 2 hundred!