Author Topic: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?  (Read 21073 times)

Offline Skychief

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Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« on: December 07, 2010, 06:23:52 AM »
Do any of us here have a slimmed down Hawken type rifle?

Think 13/16th's (maybe 7/8th's) barrel, excess wood shaved down, neat and trim and 45 caliber or less.


I would love to hear about rifles such as this and pictures would be great too.

Thanks very much, Skychief.


Online smylee grouch

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2010, 06:38:21 AM »
I have made several over the years, mostly for my kids and they will pass them down to my grandkids. I had to fabricate alot of the parts to scale but that is part of the fun. 40-45-&50 cal.      Sorry but I dont have any pics right now.    Gary

Offline Herb

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2010, 07:04:42 AM »
Here you go.  I built the .54 for Ron, who killed a couple of deer with it, but had shoulder surgery and could no longer handle the weight and recoil.  So I built this scaled down .40 caliber rifle for him and traded back for my .54.  The .54 has a Douglas barrel 32" long, the .40 is a Green Mountain barrel, 13/16" I think.  I engraved the locks after an original Hawken pattern.  I've fired the .54 hundreds of times now. Can look up more details and post them later.





« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 08:55:33 PM by Herb »
Herb

Online rsells

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2010, 11:02:39 AM »
I like Herb's approach and rifle.  I have the parts to build a similar rifle.  Look on the Hawken Shop's web site at their Hawken squirrel rifles.  My plan is to use a 7/8 .40 cal with a barrel length between 34 and 34 inches in length to copy one of them.  I got my  breech from a customer who had a Bill Large barrel and Hawken breech plug  (7/8 by .40 barrel assembly) that he wanted to use to make a Bucks County flint rifle.  I traded for the hand made breech plug assembly made by Bill.  The rest of the parts I got from Don Stith.
                                                                                           Roger Sells

Offline Gene Carrell

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2010, 02:48:21 PM »
If you are not 'set' on the Hawken style, perhaps you should consider an  Ohio style halfstock with a 36 or 40cal 13/16 bbl. They are slender,  historical, and hold quite well for offhand  shooting.
Gene

Offline Herb

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2010, 07:49:19 PM »
The .54 Bridger weighs 9.5 pounds and I've fired it maybe a couple thousand rounds by now.  The .40 has a 31" x 7/8" Rice barrel with a Ron Long lock and triggers and early buttplate.  LOP is 13.5", it weighs 7.5 pounds.  It has a Hawken squirrel patent breech from Track of Wolf, 15/16".  None commercially available in 7/8" that I know of.  7/8" gives the right look for a scaled down rifle.  I filed the sides of the plug to match the barrel.  I cut the stock from the stick because of the 7/8" barrel.  Track's Hawken stocks have barrels only down to 15/16"

I saw a William Hawken rifle for sale on GunBroker with a lot of photos.  I printed them out and built a rifle that very closely matched it.  This one has a .40 Green River Rifle Works 13/16 x 36" barrel, a Golcher lock and Leman trigger with a Henry (?) trigger guard, brass buttplate like the originals.  I cut the stock from local black walnut.  LOP 12.75",  4" drop at heel (less than the original), 51" long.  I entered it in a Juried art show here and won first place in Sculpture.

« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 08:56:51 PM by Herb »
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Offline hanshi

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2010, 09:48:22 PM »
I have a 32" x .45 x 15/16" CVA USA made barrel and the stock for it.  With the barrel placed in the stock it has a solid, slightly heavy feel to it but will still make a nice, rather trim (mountain/Hawken) rifle despite the somewhat large dia barrel.
!Jozai Senjo! "always present on the battlefield"
Young guys should hang out with old guys; old guys know stuff.

roundball

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2010, 03:00:26 AM »

Do any of us here have a slimmed down Hawken type rifle?
Think 13/16th's (maybe 7/8th's) barrel, excess wood shaved down, neat and trim and 45 caliber or less.
I would love to hear about rifles such as this and pictures would be great too.
Thanks very much, Skychief.


Just for a weight reference, I have a T/C Hawken with a GM 32" x 15/16" x .40cal drop-in barrel...extremely accurate but definitely heavy / nose heavy...and I'm a pretty good sized lad...IMO, a 13/16" would be great, particularly if much still hunting / carrying was involved.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2010, 07:44:33 PM »
Great looking rifles, Herb.  I've thought that a .40 or .45 would be a great offhand rifle in a Hawken style; cheap and fun to shoot at short to medium ranges.  Not for heavy silhouettes at long range, though.
Andover, Vermont

Offline Herb

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2010, 03:24:18 AM »
Smoke PM'd me to ask where I got the parts.  Most are from Track of the Wolf, including the pewter for the nose cap.  .40 CAPLOCK BRIDGER HAWKEN PARTS:

Lock, Jim Bridger Hawken percussion, by R.E. Davis,  $82.50
Stock, maple halfstock blank, grade 4 sugar maple, TOW,  45.00
Barrel, Rice Barrel Co., 7/8x31" .40 caliber, 1-48 twist, round bottom grooves, 135.00
Breech, Hawken squirrel patent breech, 15/16" octagon, 5/8 x 18 thread,  31.00
Rib, 24" lipped steel octagon, Muzzleloader Builders Supply,  15.00
Butt Plate, Jim Bridger Classic Early Hawken, wax cast steel, BP-HAWK-JB-I,  20.00
Front sight, wax cast steel, FS-G-355-I,  6.50
Rear sight, semi-buckhorn wax cast steel, RS-PA-16,  6.50
Nipple, Hot Shot by Thompson Center,  4.00
Underlug for barrel staple, handmade from nail,  1.00
Wedge key, slotted wax cast steel, Key 36-I,  4.00
Inlay, slotted oval, iron, two IN-SLOT-2-I,  3.50
Toeplate, Early Hawken iron, TP-HAWK-3-I,  5.50
Forend cap, poured pewter,  10.00
Rod entry pipe, round with skirt, iron, 3/8", RP-TC-RE-6-I,  5.50
Rod pipes  3/8 steel, forward, two handmade,  10.00
Sideplate, Hawken wax cast steel, SP-HP-1-I,  3.00
Trigger, Ron Long Hawken double set, TR-PA-20,  55.00
Triggerguard, Late Hawken Half-Stock, wax cast steel, TG-HAWK-H-I,  18.00
Ramrod, 3/8" hickory, handmade, two,  10.00
Rod tips, brass, 8x32, two,  2.50
Rod tips, 3/8" brass jag and 3/8" breech face scraper,  4.00
Rod tip with steel ball puller, and cap, brass,  5.00
Stain, Fiebings dark brown oil leather dye and Muzzleloader Builders Color Rich, 5.00
Finish, Formby's high gloss tung oil,  2.00
Metal Finish, Laurel Mountain Forge Barrel Brown Degreaser,  2.00
Bolts, 8x32 tang and lock, plus ten screws,  4.00
Shipping, three sources,  38.00
TOTAL PARTS COST:  533.50.

I furnish such a list of parts for all rifles I build, usually with complete part numbers.  Also a "GUNSMITH'S CERTIFICATE":  .40CAPLOCK BRIDGER HAWKEN
This is a shorter, lighter rifle based on a Jim Bridger Hawken.  All the hardware is the same except the Rice barrel is a 7/8" .40 caliber 31 inches long, fitted with a Hawken squirrel patent breech.  The grade 4 maple stock is a little smaller in the forend, but the buttstock is of the same dimestions as a .54 Bridger Hawken I built for Ron XXXXX in April, 2000.

Ron wanted a lighter, smaller caliber Hawken for casual target shooting and we arranged a trade.  This smaller rifle has the correct Hawken parts, a Bridger lock, early buttplate, late triggerguard, toe plate and side plate and Ron Long double set triggers.  I browned the metal with 10 coats of rust and sealed it with hot beeswax.  The stock is finished with dark brown dye and ten coats of Formby's gloss tung oil.

I engraved the lock after the pattern of an original J&S Hawken lock, and so stamped it.  The engraving was done on the browned plate and hammer, so it stands out white, as Ron wanted it on the .54 Hawken.

The parts cost $533.50 and it took me about 120 hours to build this rifle.

I stamped the bottom flat of the barrel at the breech "Built by Herbert G. Troester  for Ron XXXXX  Vernal, Utah  January 2008  SN34".
Herb

Offline Herb

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2010, 07:25:59 AM »
I did not know of a Hawken stock with a 7/8" barrel channel, so I had friend Neill Fields bandsaw the stock out of the blank and inlet it for the 7/8" barrel.  You could probably get Pecatonica River to cut a stock with a 7/8" barrel channel, but not the tang.  I filed my 15/16" tang down to match the 14/16" (7/8")  barrel.  Probably you could file down a regular hooked breech 15/16" tang, too.  The big .54 had a 1 1/8" breech plug as I remember, and I had to file that down to match the 1" barrel.  If anyone uses this approach, talk to the people at Pecatonica River and they can cut what you need.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 08:58:06 PM by Herb »
Herb

Offline doulos

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2010, 04:39:52 PM »
I did not know of a Hawken stock with a 7/8" barrel channel, so I had friend Neill Fields bandsaw the stock out of the blank and inlet it for the 7/8" barrel.  You could probably get Pecatonica River to cut a stock with a 7/8" barrel channel, but not the tang.  I filed my 15/16" tang down to match the 14/16" (7/8")  barrel.  Probably you could file down a regular hooked breech 15/16" tang, too.  The big .54 had a 1 1/8" breech plug as I remember, and I had to file that down to match the 1" barrel.  If anyone uses this approach, talk to the people at Pecatonica River and they can cut what you need.
Don Stith offers a Hawken squirrel rifle with a 7/8 barrel on his web site.

cahil_2

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2010, 08:43:52 PM »
What about a TC Seneca?

Offline Skychief

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2010, 02:06:41 AM »
What about a TC Seneca?

I have a Seneca in 36 caliber cahil.   Just had an itch for a custom built 45.

Offline wvmtnman

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2010, 04:55:55 AM »
Here is one I did a few years back for my father in law.  It is a 7/8 .45 caliber  I didn't really follow any school or style.  I just made a rifle that was comfortable to shoot.

                                                           Brian
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 04:57:30 AM by wvmtnman »
B. Lakatos

Offline BrentD

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2010, 05:00:24 AM »
Now there is some elegance!  Nice work!

nosrettap1958

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2010, 06:44:57 PM »
Similar, if not almost a dead ringer for, in profile at least, to Brian’s rifle he made for his father in law is a John and Caleb Vincett plains rifle out of Ohio.
I have a custom Vincett that looks similar and they are a real comfortable rifle to shoot even off-hand.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 06:53:14 PM by crawdad »

Offline wvmtnman

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2010, 08:57:21 PM »
When I designed the pattern, I looked at a couple different rifles and combined the features of what I liked from each.  I studied; Vincent of OH, Benson of WV and threw in a bit of the beefier stock appearance from the Plains rifles.   The people I build these for were not concerned about style, only shootability for hunting.
   The buttplate is of my own design. I wanted one that was a little thicker in the middle, I was afraid that the thin VIncent style would not be comfortable to shoot in a .50 caliber.  I actually built 3 identical rifles to this design.  A .45, a .50 and a fullstock .36.  They handle very well. 
                                                                    Brian
B. Lakatos

JoeG

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2010, 11:22:30 PM »
When I worked at Green River Rifle Works
Ron Paull made a few 1/2 sock lemans
for personal sale that had a tapered barrel 15/16 at the breech tapered to 7/8  32inchs long
 they were light and well balanced
I recall one was a .50 and the other a .45

you could do the same on a Hawken style and use the 15/16 breech from TOTW
« Last Edit: December 20, 2010, 09:05:46 AM by JoeG »

sniper68

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2010, 03:54:27 AM »
Here's one of my favorite's. Green River 45 cal., 13/16ths 28" bbl.. Weighs in at just under 5.5lbs.. Like carrying a .22 single shot.

BrownBear

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2010, 04:11:02 AM »
When I worked at Green River Rifle Works
Ron Paull made a few 1/2 sock lemans
for personal sale that han a tapered barrel 15/16 at the breech tapered to 7/8  32inchs long
 they were light and well balanced
I recall one was a .50 and the other a .45

you could do the same on a Hawken style and use the 15/16 breech from TOTW



I've got one of Ron's (signed) Hawkens in 58 cal 36"  tapered from 1 1/8 x 1", and I can just imagine what those Lemans are like.  Mine is hefty, but so well balanced you'd don't notice the weight at your shoulder.  It would be a treat to have him make me a small caliber.  Thanks for the nudge!

JoeG

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2010, 04:46:02 AM »
Quote
I've got one of Ron's (signed) Hawkens in 58 cal 36"  tapered from 1 1/8 x 1", and I can just imagine what those Lemans are like.  Mine is hefty, but so well balanced you'd don't notice the weight at your shoulder.  It would be a treat to have him make me a small caliber.  Thanks for the nudge!

You're a lucky man Ron Paull Builds a fine rife,

I also heard a rumor that he has gone back to building full time, so now would be the time to order that small caliber rifle

BrownBear

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2010, 05:03:51 AM »
We're already talking!  He's a "neighbor" now.  Or at least in a neighboring town.  Good guy.

JoeG

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2010, 09:10:07 AM »
I used to live on Kodiak in the late 70's

I haven't seen Ron since the Hickerson Park Rendezvous in "82"
Tell him Joe Gondek says Hi

BrownBear

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Re: Scaled down Hawken type rifles?
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2010, 03:39:52 PM »
Will do.  I have to ask if you're related to Ed G?