Author Topic: poured pewter  (Read 15776 times)

karwelis

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poured pewter
« on: December 07, 2010, 07:41:39 PM »
well i read Ken Guy's tutorial on this subject, and it was very very informative! but i was wondering because ive never done this before, now much different is it to do on a half stock? what do i need to watch for? how do i heat the barrel? y'all got any pointers for me? thanx in advance!

Offline smylee grouch

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2010, 08:20:39 PM »
Some times it helps to gently warm barrel with propane torch before you put it back into stock and the pewter flows alittle better around barrel. Clean any oil out of bore before you heat it up.    Gary

Offline Ken G

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2010, 11:21:45 PM »
Crow Killer,
I haven't poured a half stock yet.  If I did I would try hanging a hot bolt (smaller than the bore) on a wire inside the bore.  You could measure on the outside of the barrel to figure how long of a wire you need. 
I've tried heating the barrel from the outside. The problem I encountered was heating it through the tape.  The tape always got hot and burned before the barrel heated up.
Good Luck
Ken
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Offline wvmtnman

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2010, 11:51:10 PM »
For a halfstock I heat the barrel with a propane torch and let the heat work down.  I don't put the paper between the stock and the barrel.  I wrap thin cardboard (beer 12 pack type) to make my form and clamp it tight against the barrel with a spring clamp.  Stuff a little steel wool down along the barrel channel so it does not run down a long the barrel.  I also drill three holes in the stock and counter sing the holes in the barrel channel so the cap doesnot ever pull off. 
   Be sure to melt plenty of pewter.  One time it started running down the sides of the barrel and I just kept pouring.  it did get hard and finally fill the cavity.
                                                                   Brain
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karwelis

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2010, 08:49:25 PM »
so far all great advise! i am still hoping to hear form people that have done halfstocks. im a little concerned about the entry pipe for the ram rod and the shape i have to make for the ramrod. anyone got pics of their half stock nose caps?

Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2010, 03:22:26 AM »
I've poured hundreds of nose caps for half stock rifles, and have never heated the barrel first, though it is likely a good idea.  I don't have pewter though - I use high speed babbit material, and I don't know its metal compound ingredients.  But it pours well, fills the mold, shapes up nicely, and polishes. 
  You have to cut away some of the forend so that you can replace it with metal.  Cut the sides of the forend right down to the barrel , and up from the bottom, until you have removed the entire rod channel and then a little more.  There is quite a thin shell of wood remaining.  Wrap the forend aft of the end of the intended nose piece with three layers of masking tape,  This will give you a casting that is three layers of tape bigger than the wood.  I make a mold out of cereal box card stock, since I never have beer case material at hand, so that it extends well up the barrel - perhaps twice the length of the intended cap, and tape it to the masking tape you already have..  I have used a putty formed of grease and asbestos (I know, I know) where steel wool is a better idea, to close the gap between the top of the forend and the junction of the barrel.  You want a mold that has no place where the molten metal can run away.  I plug the entry pipe with a short length of hickory rod that has several wraps of masking tape to make a tight seal, and yet will pull out of the pipe fairly easily once the metal is poured and hard.  Sometimes I have to file a notch in the plug so that I can tap it toward the muzzle with a drift and a hammer, because the molten metal will fill every gap that you do not.  Like Brian, I drill holes through the wood into the barrel channel and put a little countersink on the inside of the channel.  I also drill into the end grain of the forend to further strengthen the cap.
Stand the gun up on its butt plate, heat the metal until it is molten and then some, clean away the dross, and pour it into the mold.  Fill the mold to the top, so that if a void wants to form there will be weight of molten metal to close the void.  A void can be caused by something as simple as gases given off from the scorching wood.
The metal will solidify quickly.  But it'll be a while before it's cool enough to handle and work.  But soon you'll be able to remove the paper mold, the little dams, and the masking tape.  Make sure there is no metal above the side flats of the barrel...cut them off with a chisel if that occurs, because now it's time to take the barrel out.  Hold the gun by the barrel in the vise, and tap out the wooden plug that filled the entry pipe, then take the rifle, and assuming you've removed the pins or wedges that secure it, give the barrel a good rap against the bench, and it'll lift right out of the forend.  Now it's only a matter of shaping the nose piece to suit your idea of what it is supposed to look like.

It's been over twenty years since I did one, so I hope I haven't forgotten anything.  I'll see if I can find a picture or two of a poured nose piece on a half stocked rifle.
D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline Mike C

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2010, 03:34:49 AM »
Another thought on pouring a nose cap. Instead of shaping the wood to lock the poured cap in place, shape the wood so the cast can be removed easily. If the pour is bad it can be easily removed and re-cast. If it is good epoxy it on permanently.
Mike C
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Offline D. Taylor Sapergia

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2010, 03:41:14 AM »
The first two, as you can see, have some were and tear and oxidation, while the third is fairly new.  These are on Hawken styled rifles, and therefore, are quite simlilar in design...



D. Taylor Sapergia
www.sapergia.blogspot.com

Art is not an object.  It is the excitement inspired by the object.

Offline BrentD

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2010, 03:45:09 AM »
Does anyone use pure tin for a nose cap?  It has low melting temp, good hardness, and it doesn't oxidize much if at all (and relatively nontoxic to boot).

karwelis

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2010, 03:57:43 AM »
d. taylor, this is exactly what im looking to do. the rifle im going to try this on is a GPR and has the same issues as yours for a nose cap

Offline whitebear

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2010, 04:08:21 AM »
Yes I have used pure tin with good results for a full stock nose cap but the procedure is the same as for pewter.
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Offline Metalshaper

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2010, 04:19:48 AM »
FWIW,

Rummage around the thrift stores and you can find old beat up pewter items that are worth lil or nothing. These can be used.  I talked to a guy who uses tin based, lead free solder for his?

My Bud Marlow came into a box full of Auto body filler. These are the old 'lead' bars used for molding and fixing the old cars, in the  pre Bondo era ;) <maybe why the early racers referred to them as lead sleds?? >  thing is these bars are nearly all tin!  The metal melts maybe a skoshe above my pewter mix.. but pours like water! stays fluid for quite some time. < fills really well, but will show you exactly where the tiniest hole was, in your form  :P >

neat thing is it holds it shine for a long time, if that's what you want? or with a lil patina solution used on stain glass caming, it can be aged a bit??

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan



Offline smylee grouch

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2010, 04:41:44 AM »
If you dont like the shine of pure pewter add a small section of silver solder into the mix, it wont come out quite as shinny.   Gary

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2010, 04:51:12 AM »
I poured one for a Hawken squirrel rifle and didn't heat the barrel. I wrapped the ram rod with aluminum foil. Came out perfectly, even the ram rod came out with a twisting action.

I drill 1/8 inch blind holes into the wood (underneath where the cap will be).
Dennis
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Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2010, 05:42:21 PM »
Crow Killer,

Here's another....



-Ron

Ron Winfield

Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun. -Nate McKenzie

Offline BrentD

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2010, 07:20:44 PM »
Ron, that one is especially nice. 

karwelis

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2010, 08:17:41 PM »
Crow Killer,

Here's another....



-Ron



wow i really like that! i may try something simular

chapmans

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2010, 03:31:52 AM »
I've done close to 15 poured nose caps, I have never preheated the barrel, was shown/taught how to do this by the late Don Kammerer.








I use  clay to fill gaps and just pour right over it, you have to use real clay, not the synthetic stuff!















This last pic is one with an entry thimble I built for my son when he was about 10 yrs old.
  Regards, Steve Chapman


Offline Ky-Flinter

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2010, 05:49:36 AM »
Sweet!

-Ron
Ron Winfield

Life is too short to hunt with an ugly gun. -Nate McKenzie

karwelis

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2010, 07:35:22 PM »
wow steve! i hope mine are anywhere that nice!

steve what did you use around the ramrod to get it to release?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 07:49:11 PM by crow killer »

chapmans

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2010, 09:52:25 PM »
Crow Killer,
  I don't use anything, just make sure it's straight, no taper, I've never had a problem getting them out.
  Regards, Steve Chapman

Meteorman

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2010, 10:17:40 PM »
Great pics,  Steve, thanks for posting them !
What's the composition of the material you are melting and pouring in those pics ?


chapmans

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2010, 12:14:21 AM »
Meteorman,
   I'm not sure of the composition, I have been buying it at Friendship, off of the vendors, and have bought some at the flea market, it was marked pewter for nosecaps.
   Regards, Steve Chapman

Offline v308

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2010, 05:18:23 AM »
I ain't never been able to pour a cap without heating the barrel first. That cold chunk of steel acts like a huge 'heat sink', cooling & solidifying the pewter so fast it can't fill the mold in a solid mass. Guess it depends on where you're at, I often work on guns in the winter, in an unheated shop. Last winter the tempture didn't get above 40 inside for over 3 weeks. Perhaps 'heating' isn't the proper word, I try to get the barrel 'luke-warm' to the touch, that is, not cold, using a propane torch several inches above the dam. If the tape starts to scorch/get tacky I stop and start melting the pewter.

Offline bjmac

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Re: poured pewter
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2010, 07:34:30 PM »
After reading all of the info about pewter nose caps, it got me to thinking (dangerous, at best!) about pouring a pewter butt plate? Anyone tried it? How would you go about it? Any suggestions?