Author Topic: Who swears by Ballistol ???  (Read 46496 times)

Daryl

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2010, 09:15:37 PM »
Like Taylor, I use WD40 after drying with patches.  I spray the WD40 down the bore until it freely runs out the vent or nipple seat. I am not CHEAP with it. I don't use a 'damp' WD40 patch for running down and up the bore. I buy it by the gallon and use a spray bottle that puts out good pressure - 4 to 6 sprays into the bore before I run the patch down. I want any and ALL residual moisture to be gone.  That is what it's for.

I then use a dry patch down the bore which blasts excess WD40 out the vent or nipple seat. Up and down, up and down up and down - until I'm totally sastified all the rifling corners are well coated with a very thin film.

I use the same patch for wiping for wiping the outside of the barrel before putting the gun back together. I store them muzzle down in a rack.  I don't have to check the bore in 2 days, 3 months or 3 years - it is without rust because it was clean before I used this very thin film producing oil called WD40.

I use moly grease on the bearing parts of my locks, inside and out.  After cleaning them in a can of water (prior to doing the barrel) I shake them off, then either blow the excess off with mymouth if I'm lazy(most of the time), or with compressed air - then wipe with a towel - then liberally spray them with WD40 over the garbage can or gravel outside flushign off any residual moisture - it must work - none of my locks rust in 2 days - 3 months or 12 months.  The air and WD40 does not wash or blow off the moly for at least a year's worth of lubrication.  Good enough for me - I can lube once a year and be done with it - cleaning as noted.T

That's all the test I need. No special chemicals, no special anti-rust agents - all I've used for decades is WD40.  I even use it on my modern guns as a wipe down- if I feel like it, mostly they are dry - except -  I coat the underside of free-floated barrels and bedded action parts with moly grease.  the grease doesn't soak through gun finish, nor does it soften bedding.

I normally use other chem.s. on modern stuff, though.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 09:25:16 PM by Daryl »

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2010, 09:20:19 PM »
I saw that test a few years ago and I while I found reading about how the tests were conducted to be interesting, I found the actual test results themselves to be meaningless because they don't represent reality...people don't leave perfectly good firearms out in the elements of 100% humidity for days on end.


I dunno. I guess this might depend on one's level of experience.

Even if rolled in a poncho to keep off the rain and bugs while you sleep (in the mud) you awake soaked from perspiration and condensation.
I have done this at some level for long periods of time week to 90 days at a stretch.
My Commander did not rust other than the time I tried the WD40. And it "slept" where I did in a shoulder holster. So the long term testing in extreme conditions does prove things and it can help in making a choice.





I have also packed a flintlock around in the rain while working as an big game guide during Montana's back country season. Living in a wall tent is never really dry if it rains for a few days straight.

Dan

He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2010, 02:04:37 AM »
I saw that test a few years ago and I while I found reading about how the tests were conducted to be interesting, I found the actual test results themselves to be meaningless because they don't represent reality...people don't leave perfectly good firearms out in the elements of 100% humidity for days on end.


I dunno. I guess this might depend on one's level of experience.

Even if rolled in a poncho to keep off the rain and bugs while you sleep (in the mud) you awake soaked from perspiration and condensation.
I have done this at some level for long periods of time week to 90 days at a stretch.
My Commander did not rust other than the time I tried the WD40. And it "slept" where I did in a shoulder holster. So the long term testing in extreme conditions does prove things and it can help in making a choice.





I have also packed a flintlock around in the rain while working as an big game guide during Montana's back country season. Living in a wall tent is never really dry if it rains for a few days straight.

Dan


Dan:  THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!  A TON

Offline doulos

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2010, 02:15:34 AM »
I saw that test a few years ago and I while I found reading about how the tests were conducted to be interesting, I found the actual test results themselves to be meaningless because they don't represent reality...people don't leave perfectly good firearms out in the elements of 100% humidity for days on end.

Put another way, I could run a test that shows every time somebody jumped out of an airplane at 40,000 feet without oxygen and a parachute they'd die...but it would be a meaningless "so what" test because it has nothing to do with real life activity.  IE: people don't actually go around jumping out of airplanes at 40,000 feet.

Speaking only for myself, I think tests like these are interesting exercises and hats off to the investment in time the individual took to run it...but I don't personally believe the results of this lube-test establish any real world basis for people to rush out and start using any particular product that was included in it, regardless of the product...just my .02 cents.
Here is another one for Roundball and those who love WD-40
It was on Brownells web site
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10700/guntechdetail/Gun_Cleaning_Clinic__Knowing_the_Limits_of_Rust_Preventatives

« Last Edit: December 20, 2010, 02:17:03 AM by doulos »

Offline doulos

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2010, 02:21:52 AM »
Im use both Ballistol and WD-40. But must admit I use the ballistol diluted for cleaning at the range and a patch lube the most.  I use the Wd 40 to drive out moisture in the barrel AFTER DRYING.
I dont know about it yet for long term storage. Ive used G96 too with good results.
 For long term storage there is nothing like RIG or Outers gun grease

I think over the years any problem I had with traces of rust was flash rust from scalding water or soap concoctions.  I think the main thing for me is to use a smaller jag and about 3 patches to really clean the deep grooves these roundball barrels have and also to get it dry.  I usually use a 50 cal jag with 3 patches to clen my .54's and 54 jags for my 58's.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2010, 02:28:41 AM by doulos »

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #30 on: December 20, 2010, 03:51:51 AM »
I saw that test a few years ago and I while I found reading about how the tests were conducted to be interesting, I found the actual test results themselves to be meaningless because they don't represent reality...people don't leave perfectly good firearms out in the elements of 100% humidity for days on end.

Put another way, I could run a test that shows every time somebody jumped out of an airplane at 40,000 feet without oxygen and a parachute they'd die...but it would be a meaningless "so what" test because it has nothing to do with real life activity.  IE: people don't actually go around jumping out of airplanes at 40,000 feet.

Speaking only for myself, I think tests like these are interesting exercises and hats off to the investment in time the individual took to run it...but I don't personally believe the results of this lube-test establish any real world basis for people to rush out and start using any particular product that was included in it, regardless of the product...just my .02 cents.
Here is another one for Roundball and those who love WD-40
It was on Brownells web site
http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10700/guntechdetail/Gun_Cleaning_Clinic__Knowing_the_Limits_of_Rust_Preventatives



Interesting and a good test I think.
WD 40 was changed as near as I can tell, the old cans included chlorinated solvents in the ingredients and I suspect this was the corrosion producer in 1970. It was not until I started reading of its use here that I started using it again and I use it as Daryl does for locks and stuff. But I keep it away from wood.
It does dry to a coating which would explain why it did not wash off in the T-storms.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Dave K

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #31 on: December 20, 2010, 06:33:57 AM »
Skychief. Just me it sounds, but I never have been too keen on putting any thing oily on wood or a wood finish. I guess just too many years dealing with oil soaked old gun stocks that are getting soft and pithy. But, as far as Ballistol for protecting the metal. I have been using it for about 10yrs. and I have been very happy with it. I know some of said they had rust show up pretty quick, but I never did. I used to use WD 40 and then one day I got to thinking about the can of WD 40 that I had in the workshop. The top of the can was all rusty! You know, the area around the spray nozzle. I got to thinking if the can that holds my rust inhibitor is rusting, I would think my guns that I am trying to protect would also. So I went and got started using Ballistol.

Offline Darrin McDonal

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2010, 12:07:36 AM »
I also say thank you Dan!! and any other vet whos on here. I mean it!
As for Balistol I have never been really impressed by it. It was absolutly terrible at cleaning the bore of my muzzleloaders. As a lube it was ok. I dont use it as a rule even though I have some.
Darrin
Apprentice Gunsmith
Colonial Williamsburg
Owner of Frontier Flintlocks

Offline bgf

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2010, 12:27:25 AM »
I like WD40, especially because so many self-righteous gun fanatics claim it is the worst thing you can use.  I wouldn't use Ballistol for the opposite reason -- it just turns me off when I hear so many miracle stories and testimonials about a product; reminds me of a cult or a time share community.  For metal, I've seen guns that were maintained regularly for decades with motor oil on the exterior (metal -- internals need a lighter lube), and they did not have a speck of rust on them -- wipe on, wipe off, very little smell and $2 a quart for the generic stuff.  30W is the best :).  So who swears by 30W motor oil? 

Dan Phariss,
Which one of those boys is you?  I can't argue with your logic about the WD40 -- that is the most stringent field test I can think of.

Offline Skychief

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2010, 01:32:46 AM »
It is dissapointing that none of the controlled corrosion tests feature Ballistol and WD-40, head to head. >:(

Any experimenters amongst us with some spare time on their hands? ;D

roundball

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2010, 02:11:40 AM »

I like WD40, especially because so many self-righteous gun fanatics claim it is the worst thing you can use.
I wouldn't use Ballistol for the opposite reason -- it just turns me off when I hear so many miracle stories and testimonials about a product; reminds me of a cult or a time share community.

Well said...

roundball

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2010, 02:14:57 AM »

It is dissapointing that none of the controlled corrosion tests feature Ballistol and WD-40, head to head. >:(


Best possible WD40 tests are already out:  decades of hands on experience from many people with zero problems.

 ;D

Offline Skychief

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2010, 02:55:02 AM »
Still.................

omark

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2010, 04:36:17 AM »
just my personal experience.  several yrs ago my basement flooded to about 10" up the stocks of my rifles. i grabbed the wd 40 and sprayed everything liberally. with all of the other things damaged that had to be taken care of and being a young father at the time, it was quite some time before i got back to the guns. i did check them periodically and found no rust, but eventually the wd 40 turned gummy. this was about 1976 or so, so maybe the formula has been changed for the better.  mark

cal.43

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2010, 12:39:56 PM »
oilthreads are allways amuzing, me talking about the oiltopic at a germanforum most people will say that WD40 is cheapjunk or nothing else than petroleum and the germanbrands are famos and so on. Oil- powder- patchlube are themes that will be discussed like politik sportsclubs and religion with no consense.
I use Ballistol because of its all purpose use and itīs an alkaline oil to soft tombak in the bore, allso I use plenty of WD40 because its so cheap and if the oil stand on the metall its ok.

chuck-ia

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2010, 04:01:15 PM »
I bought a gallon a few years ago, I would allways notice a brown tint on the white cleaning patch after swabbing the bore the next day after cleaning. I doubt it was rust, but have not used it since. I will have to try it again and see if I still get  the brown on the patch. Sometimes I think we get carried away with all the super oils on the market today. I am building a trade gun and plan to use 3-1 oil or just eng oil on it, I will let you know how it works, in about 30 years. chuck

Birddog6

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2010, 05:11:25 PM »
I absolutely love Ballistol.  Have use it for ? 10 years, no rust issues, Non-aerosol for the bore, Aerosol for the lock internals.   1 ounce of the non-aerosol in a gallon of water & a flushing kit for cleaning. The stuff is awesome, buy it by the cases for the shop for penetrating oil. Works for me.  I don't care what is in it or who made it or when......  It works for me...  Some like it, some don't, just like any other oil or grease....  I dispise WD40, but some love the stuff. That is fine.... :)

But for Long Term Storage, Nothing I have tried yet will beat   RIG  gun grease.

I don't like it or any oil/water mixture for patch lube, as on the shelf, Ballistol mix will separate & then will not remix to the same perportions.   If you are going to mix it for patch lube, make just enough to use short term, IMHO.......  If it sits a while it will not remix the same.

Keith Lisle

Offline heinz

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2010, 05:15:36 PM »
Never tried Ballistol so have no experience, but I agree completely with Kieth Lisle on Rig gun grease for storage.
kind regards, heinz

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2010, 06:04:41 PM »
I bought a gallon a few years ago, I would allways notice a brown tint on the white cleaning patch after swabbing the bore the next day after cleaning. I doubt it was rust, but have not used it since. I will have to try it again and see if I still get  the brown on the patch. Sometimes I think we get carried away with all the super oils on the market today. I am building a trade gun and plan to use 3-1 oil or just eng oil on it, I will let you know how it works, in about 30 years. chuck

I wonder about the brown/tan one the next patch in a day or week or month. I get black oxide out of bores when cleaning that could be mistaken for powder fouling but the patch drys the patches turn brown. Something BP fouling won't do. So there is some loose iron in the bore.
So when I get a little brown I wonder if its just some oxide left over from cleaning when the steel is bare and will oxidize.

Need an expert here.


Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline t.caster

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2010, 04:20:26 AM »
My good friend complained his Getz barreled Smoothbore that I built, was loading quite hard a couple years ago. He uses Ballistol all the time. When I got it home I found the bore was rusted full length. He insisted he cleaned it well six months earlier and oiled it and put in his closet, where it sat. I spent over an hour working the bore w/a WD_40 soaked Scotch guard pad. Got it bright again and told him to dump the Ballistol. In all fairness, that is the only instance of a problem I know of. Lots of the guys in my club use it and swear by it.
I lube my barrels and rub down the entire rifle with RIG.
I use Liquid Wrench or 3in1 penetrants (there are many other brands as well) on my lock & triggers instead of WD40. They don't seam to dry out as quick.
Tom C.

Offline axelp

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2010, 04:58:34 AM »
I use a special oil on my locks internals that I got from a friend--- I wont say its whale oil---it might be or it might not...

I use bear oil/beeswax mix for the bore and the stock when I am out in the field or camping out away from home and find need to clean and oil my bore.

BUT when I am home I use either Lehigh Valley lube or Ballistol. For no other reason except that they both work really well on my guns. There are so many variables like humidity and weather and temperature--and also personal hygiene and cleaning habits, hot water cold water... To say that any one thing will work for everyone is perilous. Try them and use what best works for you.

K
Galations 2:20

Offline A.Merrill

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2010, 03:15:13 PM »
     This is real easy to figure out, take three strips of steel, put WD40 on one Ballistol on one and 3 in 1 oil on one. Lay them out in your yard for a month. I will put my money on the 3 in 1 oil. If you want to clean your guns once a week with WD40 it will work fine but, that is just hanging on the wall in your house after the shooting match. On a hunt for a week out side while camping out, I wouldn't trust it for a day. It dose not have the additives in it to be a long term rust preventive. I worked for a oil company for 19yrs. We used base stocks and additives to make our own , motor oil, grease, etc.    AL
Alan K. Merrill

Daryl

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2010, 07:03:20 PM »
Then there's this.

I found it quite intersting - however, Taylor did an experiment with leaving a loaded pistol barrel outside for a week.  The 'original formual' LHV rusted under the patch - no wheer else. - the Hoppe's #9 Plus did not rust and with that test, he brought the barrel in every night - from well below freezing outsdie to a 65F house - then put it out for the next day - every day for 5 or 7 days. No rust and the Hoppe's black powder solvent didn't spoil the powder, either.

http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/corrosion/corrosion2.html

chuck c.

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2010, 08:57:46 PM »
I've got about six full bottles of original LVH that's been setting in the cabinet for a few years for the same reason. I left my rifle loaded while on a hunting trip for 4 or 5 days and it really rusted where that LVH patch was! It took a lot of scotch brite and elbow grease to get it where you couldn't feel it with a dry patch.

Daryl

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Re: Who swears by Ballistol ???
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2010, 09:17:42 PM »
I LOVE that stuff for match shooting or on a trail - it is the MOST accurate lube I've ever found - BUT - it required an extra 10gr. of 3F to do it - in both .40 & .45 cal. rifles.  Too- adding 10gr. to their 3F charges, but using 2f gave identical results same patches - different charges is all.  There is no fouling buildup in the grooves for an entire day's shooting on the trail or on the range at paper - with either powder - and no noticable difference in loading between the grades of powder.  This is even though I was shooting 85gr. 2F in the .45 and 75gr. 2f in the .40.

 Both loads gave well over 2,000fps.  That velocity and pressure requires a snug load to seal and not injure the patches.  The patches are reusable - no cuts, tears or burns. They fray arond the edges, due to the muzzle flash and blast, but maintain their integrity around the perifery of the ball.  Due to the 'cup' shape, they are easily lined up for re-loading. All they need is more lube.