Author Topic: Sam Browne Buttons (Read 11239 times)

BrownBear · « **on:** December 19, 2010, 05:16:57 PM »

Anyone know when these things appeared on the scene? I haven't come up with anything I like better for closing bags and such, but I know they're garish to real traditionalists.

JoeG · « **Reply #1 on:** December 19, 2010, 11:53:37 PM »

Museum of the fur trade has a shooting pouch (ca. 1830's?) with an over size sam brown button
you also see them on military leather in the 1850's
not sure about 1830 Dragoon gear

BrownBear · « **Reply #2 on:** December 20, 2010, 12:46:14 AM »

I'll be darned. I thought they were a lot more recent than that. Thanks!

LRB · « **Reply #3 on:** December 20, 2010, 01:22:33 AM »

I could be wrong, but you see a similar button on some rev war period items, or at least some items listed as rev war. The difference I see is that rather than a ball, the button is flat underneath where it sits on the post, the posts are straighter in profile.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #4 on:** December 20, 2010, 01:44:10 AM »

I robbed this button from a WW II Sam Browne piece, and used it on my belly box. I have no idea if it's correct or now, but it works really well.

BrownBear · « **Reply #5 on:** December 20, 2010, 03:27:14 AM »

Quote from: D. Taylor Sapergia on December 20, 2010, 01:44:10 AM

I robbed this button from a WW II Sam Browne piece, and used it on my belly box. I have no idea if it's correct or now, but it works really well.

Thanks for the photo, and everyone's input. I really like them too, but fielded some grief somewhere, sometime from an "authority" who said that they weren't authentic. Good function is most important to me and they're great, especially for one-handed use.

Beaverman · « **Reply #6 on:** December 20, 2010, 07:50:25 AM »

Quote from: BrownBear on December 20, 2010, 03:27:14 AM

Quote from: D. Taylor Sapergia on December 20, 2010, 01:44:10 AM
I robbed this button from a WW II Sam Browne piece, and used it on my belly box. I have no idea if it's correct or now, but it works really well.

Thanks for the photo, and everyone's input. I really like them too, but fielded some grief somewhere, sometime from an "authority" who said that they weren't authentic. Good function is most important to me and they're great, especially for one-handed use.

And who made the "AUTHORITY" God that day?

BrownBear · « **Reply #7 on:** December 20, 2010, 03:47:42 PM »

My question exactly. Some folks are gods in their own minds. Kinda fun to laugh at them. Kinda sad to see the look on their face when you do.

Artificer · « **Reply #8 on:** December 20, 2010, 07:22:58 PM »

Two piece "cuff link" style sleeve buttons definitely go back before rev war.

http://www.wmboothdraper.com/

The Sam Brown buttons are also known as "post" closures and when they are two piece that thread together - they are called "screw posts." Screw posts are definitely Post Civil War, but I think someone here mentioned that solid post closures go back to the 18th century.

Gus

BrownBear · « **Reply #9 on:** December 20, 2010, 08:34:54 PM »

Thanks Gus! That's useful info. I've never had much luck with the screw posts (without superglue, anyway), and had completely forgotten them.

I'm wondering of there's a contemporary source of the buttons that are flattened on the bottom such as LRB describes:

Quote

The difference I see is that rather than a ball, the button is flat underneath where it sits on the post, the posts are straighter in profile.

Artificer · « **Reply #10 on:** December 20, 2010, 09:57:14 PM »

Brown Bear,

I've seen the solid brass, double headed studs or post closures on origial jaeger rifle slings, but I'm not sure if the slings were as old as the rifles.

I sorry I don't have more info on them.
Gus

LRB · « **Reply #11 on:** December 20, 2010, 10:13:17 PM »

Brown Bear, you could chuck them in a drill press, and work them with a file. You would have to careful to get them chucked in square where they don't wobble much.

BrownBear · « **Reply #12 on:** December 20, 2010, 10:31:02 PM »

That's a thought. I'm thinking I ran across something similar on a horse tack supply site, but it may have been in England.

Chuck Burrows · « **Reply #13 on:** December 21, 2010, 02:02:41 AM »

Try Hansons or Hansens (sp??) Leather Shop on ebay as well as some of the Civil War sutlers - some of those folks carry the flatter type of harness stud which is what the so-called Sam Browne button's really are(the ones they sell under that name with the ball end rather than the flat aren't the same as real Sam Browne buttons despite the name - I've built/repaired more than a few originals)
Harness studs go back to at least Roman Times and various types were widely used on bot knife and sword sheaths, in particular those with metal mounts from at least the late 1700's and were very popular post 1800 on sheaths, in particular Bowie sheaths.
Whether such studs were used on pouches is another question.

LRB · « **Reply #14 on:** December 21, 2010, 02:21:04 AM »

Very good Chuck. I will check on those myself. Hope you are doing better, healthwise, and otherwise. You need to take good care of yourself. Too many of us depend on you for straight info. Merry Christmas pard.

JoeG · « **Reply #15 on:** December 21, 2010, 03:51:21 AM »

Another option is the brass stud used to close off bayonet scabbards
Smiling fox sells them
they could be made into an over size stud

BrownBear · « **Reply #16 on:** December 21, 2010, 05:02:27 AM »

Thanks folks! These are really helpful replies.

Beaverman · « **Reply #17 on:** December 22, 2010, 06:57:38 PM »

Hey bear, have any luck finding what your looking for?, I'm drawing blanks on the net searches so far.

BrownBear · « **Reply #18 on:** December 22, 2010, 08:24:13 PM »

I've had little chance, but so far nothing. I'm on a new computer at the cost of a bunch of old bookmarks. Somewhere in those I found an English company that had some but so far Googling harness studs has produced mostly google ads for stud services, online sex and harness racing. I think I'm going to cross google off my search engine list. What a waste of my time and their bandwidth.

Chuck Burrows · « **Reply #19 on:** December 23, 2010, 01:07:50 AM »

Yes searching anything with the term stud gets you some "interesting" site.....
try Sam Browne Buttons as well..........

Here's Hanson's contact info Hanson's Leather & Supply Co by phone at (530) 933-1232. or info@hansons.net - I didn't find them on the site but I;d give them a call.......

Abbey Saddlery has them http://www.abbeysaddlery.co.uk/product_detail.cfm?id=C058

Scroll down for button stud with screw back...... http://www.hardwareelf.com/elf/miscellaneous.jsp

Also I make my own
To make them I take a solid brass Chicago screw and chuck the female end into my drill. Turn the drill on and with I file the edge of the head down to about half of it's normal diameter leaving a nice flat back head that is not too large to fit through the hole/slot of the frog. To mount it on the leather I then take a small brass washer and place it at the base of the female end. This prevents the female end from pulling through the leather as you screw it down. Put a small dab of red Loctite on the male end and screw the two sides together. I partially countersink the male side and then after mounting I take my handy dandy Dremel and grind the head down until flush with the leather (normally I grind it down until the slot disappears

Beaverman · « **Reply #20 on:** December 23, 2010, 09:51:59 AM »

Thanks for the tip Chuck! going to try that tomorrow!

BrownBear · « **Reply #21 on:** December 23, 2010, 04:24:47 PM »

I'm on the hunt Chuck, and thanks. They are lots more practical than anything else for my needs, and both fine tuning and alternative sources are especially welcome.

Artificer · « **Reply #22 on:** December 28, 2010, 06:05:45 AM »

The matter of the double headed solid brass studs picqued my curiousity. I checked Roman, Viking and Medieval sources and could not find them besides not being able to find an 18th century source for them in the period of Pre 1784. I brought this question up on another forum and only got one response, but the person is knowledgeable and he said it was almost a sure bet they were not used in the American Colonies before that time. If other word comes along, I'll pass it along.

Gus

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Author Topic: Sam Browne Buttons (Read 11239 times)

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