Flintlock swivel breech accuracy potential?

[Naphtali]

This query has been prompted by a right-handed Leonard Day flintlock swivel breech action [only] at auction on eBay. I am left-handed so my interest in the auction was in an interesting machine. And then I wondered how accuracy for both swivel breech barrels in a well set up rifle compares with accuracy of a comparably well set up single barrel flintlock?

I ask because I don't understand how swivel breech barrels lock, or secure, or fasten to their action. I anticipate some sort of spring-loaded ball detent, perhaps more than one. I also anticipate the swivel mechanism incorporates some sort of wear adjustment? Since this type of double rifle is independent of the need to regulate barrels, it's reasonable to assume the rifle is capable of significantly better two-shot accuracy than my side-by-side double rifles. But since there need be sufficient tolerance to allow barrels to rotate 180 degrees reasonably quickly and with acceptable ease, swivel breech rifles should not have the accuracy potential of a single shot. . . . But what do I know??? Hence my asking people who do know.

[Dan'l 1946]

 I have a short barreled swivel breech rifle that Leonard built for me some  years back. It has 24" barrels and it shoots as well as any of my other rifles. I can find no looseness in the action pivot and the barrels can be rotated without lowering the rifle from my shoulder. Should the pivot loosen up after much use, there is an adjustment feature that can take up the slack, but I've never known this to be necessary.  Hope this is helpful.
                                      Dan

[Dphariss]

The lockup and pivot is not a factor if everything is done carefully and the pivot is tight. If the pivot is loose enough to allow the barrels to move in relation to the stock there should be no issue.
Having 2 barrels rather than one can be a problem perhaps. Jury is still out on mine but it shoots pretty well. I think that a single barreled rifle with a straight or straight taper barrel will be inherently more accurate at least in theory.
But swivel barrels are very light if the gun is of a traditional length like 38-40" or the rifle will be very heavy.

Dan

[Dan'l 1946]

    My rifle has "swamped" barrels in .62 caliber, so weight is kept down. The overall style is along "jaeger" lines with a robust butt stock, giving a pretty good balance. I haven't found any accuracy differences between the barrels at all.
    One thing does bear mention: some states--say Massachusetts--allow only single barrel rifles during hunting season. Pullling the frizzen on one lock covers this, but now you're lugging the useless weight of the deactivated  barrel. During the regular season, it is a handy little gun though.

[acorn20]

I have a David Price swivel breech with 28" barrels.  Sighting them in was no different than sighting in a single barreled rifle.  I just love it!

Pennsylvania's game laws also state that only single barreled rifles may be used but two years ago the WCO of Fulton County, in front of his deputies stated that a swivel breech rifle was not what the commissioners were thinking about when they made that law.  As he stated, "A swivel breech may have two barrels but it only has one source of ignition." I asked him what he would say if he saw me using this in the muzzleloading season.  He said, "If I saw you entering the woods I'd say have a good day and if I saw you coming out of the woods I'd ask if you had any luck."

Pennsylvania's a big state and I'm going to continue to use my swivel breech in the muzzleloading season. 

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread.

[marcusb]

I looked every were on Flea Bay found no sign of a swivel breech

[Dphariss]

Boy I hate that.
The sentence in my post above should read
UNLESS the pivot is loose enough to allow the barrels to move in relation to the stock there should be no issue.

The last test target from mine looked like this, one barrel only.


Its not all that great really but with my 60 year old eyes its not too bad either. Shot off a chunk prone.
Dan

[Dan'l 1946]

That's a fine group, Dan. Especially in a 20 m.p.h. crosswind!
                                                                         Dan

[Dphariss]

That's a fine group, Dan. Especially in a 20 m.p.h. crosswind!
                                                                         Dan

Shooting groups where I live can be a challenge. It might have only been 15mph.
Close to the ground I am sure it was less than while standing erect.
That barrel was shooting a little to the left too IIRC but I did not find that out until shooting sighters for a chunck match.
I did some testing at 200 yards one year and had to get out and be set up as soon as it was light and shot 5-10 shots before the wind came up. I can do 200 yard testing with BPCR and learn things even with a breeze blowing but a 54 rb at 200 can get really weird in the wind.
Its nice and still right now but we have to take the our Marine to Boz to catch a plane. And its 0.7 F. I would shoot a match at this temp. Practice? Nope.   

Dan

[Naphtali]

I looked every were on Flea Bay found no sign of a swivel breech

Here you go.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Black-Powder-Flintlock-Swivel-Breech-/290512728715?pt=Vintage_Hunting&hash=item43a3e8728b

[Naphtali]

While I'm here, shouldn't be a total loss:
1. Who makes left-handed swivel breeches for flintlock?

2. Where might I be able to view, and perhaps download, isometric drawing of swivel breech? If there is more than one currently made two-barrel swivel breech design, where/how might I find out more about all of them. . . .

3. OR if one design is demonstrably superior to its competition, please point me toward it.

[Dphariss]

While I'm here, shouldn't be a total loss:
1. Who makes left-handed swivel breeches for flintlock?

2. Where might I be able to view, and perhaps download, isometric drawing of swivel breech? If there is more than one currently made two-barrel swivel breech design, where/how might I find out more about all of them. . . .

3. OR if one design is demonstrably superior to its competition, please point me toward it.

You would likely need to make your own in LH. Having someone do it for you would not be cheap.
See the  TOW website
I don't use this design.
Dan

Dan

[Rolf]

Naphtali,

Buy Dave Waters book , "building a swivelbreech"
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=4&subId=38&styleId=137&partNum=BOOK-BASB
He shows you how to build the swivel mechanism and modify L&R Manton locks to fit.
These locks are available in lefthand versions. Changing Waters right- hand mechanism to left hand requires only switching the holes for the locking pin  to the opposite side (3 holes) and making a mirror image of the locking lever.

Best regards
Rolfkt