Brass Buttplate inclusion! Ideas on a fix

[Jim Filipski]

Hi Guys,
This is a "how would you " question just to get ideas for a cosmetic  fix. I have a brass ( actually one of those hard phosphor bronze) wax cast butt plates (which was custom cut -fancy return & inlet so I can't swap it out for another) As I was filing & shaping it after it was installed I noticed what looked like a small inclusion of grit........ then it grew and grew. I tried cleaning it out with a probe and fluxing it and laying in a glob of silver bearing solder to fill it but try as I may I could never get it to flow tight into the sides. It took ok but there is space around the fill of solder. the flaw is about a 1/4 inch in dia. so it is noticeable. I know I should have ground it out bigger to fill a cleaner undercut hole but man it's so big aready. Looking for ideas for a cosmetic fix because this thing is staying with the gun that it was inletted for!
Any ideas?
Jim

[George F.]

Drill it out and inlet another piece of a casting gate or some other bronze scrap laying around , do a good job, then silver solder that piece in and clean 'er up...How's that?  ...Geo.

[T*O*F]

Jim,
I have fixed those with an oxy/acetyl torch.  If you have a small piece of scrap, cut a nugget that is the diameter of the inclusion but slightly taller and place it in the hole.  Using your finest tip, set to it's smallest pinpoint flame, heat the nugget until it melts.  It should do so without melting the surrounding area.  Once it's up to temp, slip your flame over and start to flow the nugget into the buttplate.

It's kind of a finesse thing because it you overheat the plate, it will develop a sag.  If you see that the plate is getting too hot, back off and let it cool a bit.  You are essentially "spotwelding" the small area and depending on using the larger mass of the plate as a heat sink to keep the whole thing from overheating.  I use no flux because if it POPS, it will blow a hole in the casting.

The other way is to inlay a matching piece into the inclusion.  Burnishing it should cover the seams.

[Stophel]

I'm thinkin' two things.  One, continue to clean it out until you get good metal to solder to, fill it and let it be.  Two, if the spot is relatively round, drill it out all the way through, countersink, and rivet in a bit of brass rod and peen it all in place.   Other than the color, this would make a more invisible fix.
If you could make a "rivet" from a bit of the same brass as the plate, that would be great.  Maybe you could find an old buttplate or something lying around that the color matches up pretty well on, and use it to make a rivet out of.

I don't know about you, but I have a dresser drawer full of buttplates and triggerguards!

[Jim Filipski]

I actually save all my casting gates and scraps so I even have the pieces from this butt plate. I was toying with the riveting concept . I'm really afraid to bring the area up to brazing or silver brazing temps. Any warpage and it would be finished
Thanks for the suggestions

[Pratt]

Jim, try the aforementioned fit and peen a piece of matching material in then flood area with lower temp brass colored sheet solder, you can get it from either Gesswein or Rio Grande, can't remember right at the moment. heat from the inside to draw it through some.

[Jim Horn]

Jim, I'm pretty sure that if you peen in a rivit of the mother material, have all tight fitting and clean surfaces, you will not be able to see the repair. At worst you will have to tell people where it is so they can see the tell-tale signs. I would only use solder or braze as a last resort, it will always show up.
Good Luck, Jim

[Acer Saccharum]

I personally like the rivet method, if the piece is able to accept a rivet.

Beware of riveting too much, for that will distort your plate.

Make sure you anneal the rivet before peening, as that will lessen your chance of spreading the material around the hole.

[rich pierce]

Those bronze buttplates are trouble- be careful and don't expecdt to be able to anneal like soft brass.  You could crack the buttplate by the riveting technique.  I never got one to anneal well.

[Stophel]

Didn't think about that...you might not be able to make an effective rivet out of this stuff.  Stuck with using real yellow brass, which will show (no more than silver solder though).

Clean out the hole and get it to a regular shape, make a piece to fit in place, and solder the sucker in.   

[Knob Mountain]

Here is another idea.  If I can explain it properly.
 
 Step 1 is to silver solder it closed and sand it to a finished surface.
 Step 2 is to use a fine soft wire brush, the type you buy with a Dremel tool, and brush the backside of the BP with it .  It will coat the end of the bristles with brass.
 Step 3 is to then run the brush over the silver soldered area, very softly, and it will transfer the color to the silver solder and  it will be the same brass finish.

  A fella told me about this some time ago and I tried it out  and it works pretty good.  Not sure if it always works but it did for me.

[Jim Filipski]

Here is another idea.  If I can explain it properly.
 
 Step 1 is to silver solder it closed and sand it to a finished surface.
 Step 2 is to use a fine soft wire brush, the type you buy with a Dremel tool, and brush the backside of the BP with it .  It will coat the end of the bristles with brass.
 Step 3 is to then run the brush over the silver soldered area, very softly, and it will transfer the color to the silver solder and  it will be the same brass finish.

  A fella told me about this some time ago and I tried it out  and it works pretty good.  Not sure if it always works but it did for me.

Dave when you say "silver" solder do you mean low temp silver bearing solder or silver braze?

[David Rase]

Dave when you say "silver" solder do you mean low temp silver bearing solder or silver braze?
[/quote]
I have used this method before and it works great.  I just use silver bearing solder, i.e sta-brite.  I would avoid the higher temp silver solders as there is danger of getting the butt plate too hot and having it melt right before your eyes if it is not pure yellow brass.
DMR

[Knob Mountain]

Jim,

I just used regular old low temp stuff that I buy at the Ace hardware store.  I used a Dremel tool but I would imagine even a soft metal brush wheel on the grinder would work.  The trick seems to be to just barely touch the brass coated wheel to the silver soldered area so you don't actually brush it away.  I rubbed a rag over it  when I was finished and the brass color stayed in place.  It may come off with a hard buffing but I never went that far.  Hope someone here tries it and posts their results. I gotta go make some wood chips! I'll check back later.

Good luck

[Dphariss]

Its apparently not clean enough to solder. You may have to clean it by grinding with a Dremel tool ect to get to metal the solder will bond with. I would use high temp silver solder.

Dan

[jerrywh]

 The easiest way is to put in a brass inlay. It won't be a perfect match but it will be hard to see. You cannot put in a bronze inlay. Bronze is too brittle to inlay. I make that kind of repair on a fairly regular basis. Back the plate with body filler so that it will not deform. Clean out the cavity with a dremel or a foredom tool make a piece of brass that fits fairly close and pound it in. Flush it off and you have it.
 If you ever do this once you will not consider any other method. This is similar to the rivet method but it doesn't have to go all the way thru the plate. The rivet method works well also.

[Jim Filipski]

Its apparently not clean enough to solder. You may have to clean it by grinding with a Dremel tool ect to get to metal the solder will bond with. I would use high temp silver solder.

Dan

Yes it is pretty gnarly .... I'm going to try grinding it clean first but I'm sure I'll end up drilling it out and plugging it. I really don't think I will worry much about the colors mismatch. The plate on the end of the wooden patchbox is yellow brass so that doesn't come close to the phosphor bronze butt plate. I usually lay a patina on these to get them to blend. Should work OK for the repair

[Jim Filipski]

The easiest way is to put in a brass inlay. It won't be a perfect match but it will be hard to see. You cannot put in a bronze inlay. Bronze is too brittle to inlay. I make that kind of repair on a fairly regular basis. Back the plate with body filler so that it will not deform. Clean out the cavity with a dremel or a foredom tool make a piece of brass that fits fairly close and pound it in. Flush it off and you have it.
 If you ever do this once you will not consider any other method. This is similar to the rivet method but it doesn't have to go all the way thru the plate. The rivet method works well also.

Jerry I assume you would under cut a little, like inlaying wire into steel(?)