Author Topic: Rupp style "smooth rifle" (Read 8692 times)

eddillon · « **on:** January 03, 2011, 03:08:40 AM »

I recently purchased a petite smooth bore "rifle at a gun show in San Francisco. When purchased it was a conversion to percussion. I don't know if I commotted a grave error but I reconverted. Will never claim that it is anything but a re-con.
The gun was still loaed with a patched round ball. The patch material pretty much disintegrated when I pulled the ball. The powder was in amazing condition. If I had placed a cap on the nipple and pulled the trgger, there is no doubt in my mind that it would have fired. The drum and nipple were clear. The only marking I have found is an "IR" within a cartouche on the inside of the lockplate. The shape of the lockplate, stepped wrist, Roman nose, curve of the stock and discussion with a maker in Pennsylvania make me think John Rupp the elder. The barrel is octagon to round with no wedding band at the transition. The 1849 colt is in the picture to show relative sizeI welcome all comments and opinions. Pictures can be seen at: http://www.neconos.com/detailssmooth.htm

Fullstock longrifle · « **Reply #1 on:** January 03, 2011, 04:02:17 AM »

Nice little rifle. Your pictures are pretty dark, can't tell for sure, does it have a patchbox? How about posting a closeup of the patchbox side and the cheek piece side of the stock, that will be helpful. It looks like the lock is a nice early Germanic lock that's original to the gun. Congrats on your purchase!.

Frank

eddillon · « **Reply #2 on:** January 03, 2011, 04:07:47 AM »

Hi Frank,
No patchaplebox. I'll post a picture of the cheekpiece. The stock is a fine piece of curly maple. What do you think of the "IR" on the lockplate?
Ed

eddillon · « **Reply #3 on:** January 03, 2011, 04:09:29 AM »

Wow! Sorry about my spelling. Keyboard sometimes has a mind of its own.
Ed

Fullstock longrifle · « **Reply #4 on:** January 03, 2011, 05:36:34 AM »

Nobody seems to know for sure what those cartouches mean, I've seen many Germanic locks with similar markings. Joe Kindig notes in his book that there have been several different sets if initials seen on locks such as this. I've heard speculation that they could be the markings of German lock makers, and such marked locks are imports. But as I said, that's just speculation.

Frank

greybeard · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2011, 01:10:31 PM »

I R could verywell be J R . John Bivine used a stamp that was I B. Famous british lockmaker Joseph Brasier's mark was I B as well. Cheers Bob

mr. no gold · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2011, 07:40:32 PM »

This lock is in the Germanic style, and would not likely have had an English origin. It appears to be a modified import or was locally made. The plate looks to be unusually long and the top edge back slope from pan to tip is very acute rather than more moderate as most are. It may have even been made by the gunmaker.
Nice find! We appreciate your photos; thank you!
Dick

eddillon · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2011, 08:12:07 PM »

Thank you, everyone, for your replies. I'll post more photos today, if I get the opportunity. Home offices do have benefits. Also, the shape of the lock, that long straight slope on the top rear points, towards early Rupp or maybe Moll (IMHO).
Ed

eddillon · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2011, 09:26:30 PM »

Hi All,
I have added more photos to the web page:
http://www.neconos.com/detailssmooth.htm
Ed

Majorjoel · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2011, 09:57:24 PM »

Thanks Ed for showing pictures of your Lehigh rifle. I find the trigger with the sawtooth jagged aft edge to perhaps bring a potential gunsmith to light. I will keep searching through my picture archives to see if I can find something similar.

greybeard · « **Reply #10 on:** January 05, 2011, 04:42:19 AM »

It would be interisting to know if there are any other known rifles out there with the I R cartouche stamp. just could be a J Rupp mark.

eddillon · « **Reply #11 on:** January 06, 2011, 01:16:21 AM »

Hi All,
I have again added photos to the web page. Some close-ups. Roman nose, sawtooth trigger, front sight and etc.
http://www.neconos.com/detailssmooth.htm
Ed

eddillon · « **Reply #12 on:** January 10, 2011, 04:25:02 AM »

Hi All,
I have added one more photo to the web page for the "Rupp style smooth rifle". It is a photo of the inside of the lock showing the sear bar (I hope that this is acceptable nomenclature). The bar has a letter "H' stamped on it. My assumption is that it is a military part that has been modified to fit the tumbler. Opinions please.
http://www.neconos.com/detailssmooth.htm

Blacksmoke · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2011, 07:19:32 AM »

Ed; Your "recon" looks excellent! As too the origins of some internal lock parts - very hard to say for certain. The main requirement for doing any restoration work is to document it either be photos or written description. Thanks for your posting. Hugh Toenjes

tuffy · « **Reply #14 on:** January 10, 2011, 03:41:52 PM »

Just a novice question for those more informed. In the photo of the underside of the stock where the toe plate used to be, it looks like there are some small letters stamped into the wood. Or is it just these old eyes playing tricks again?

eddillon · « **Reply #15 on:** January 11, 2011, 02:39:32 AM »

I also had the thought that the mark in the toe plate area was a small stamp. I examined it and determined it to be a ding.
Ed
http://www.neconos.com/detailssmooth.htm

eddillon · « **Reply #16 on:** February 09, 2011, 07:19:26 PM »

After reveiwing my "Rupp style" post, I realize that I have not given credit to Stan Hollenbaugh for the great parts he sold to me for the re-conversion. Minimal fitting was needed to make them fit and most importantly function. Thanks, Stan.
Ed

eddillon · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2011, 03:06:49 AM »

Ron Gabel gave permission to print his opinion of the "Rupp style smooth rifle.
"The gun you purchased was not, in my opinion, made by Rupp I have looked at your pictures and am convinced it is not a Rupp gun for the following reasons. A. there is no stud on the trigger guard B. the forend of the stock is not V-shaped C. the buttplate is not inlet into the comb of the stock D. The gun has a Berks county style sideplate. The reason the Rupp name came up is that the stock shape appears to be in the Lehigh/Northampton school and the double break in the stock above the trigger guard is Lehigh school style. My guess is that your gun was made in the North western Lehigh/North Eastern Berks Allemaengel school of gunsmithing in the area of Kempton Pennsylvania."
The forend is V-shaped and the buttplate is inletted into the comb. I suppose the pictures should have been clearer. I'll add a picture of the forend. I want thank Ron for sharing his knowledge and steering me in the right direction towards the Allemaengel scool.

eddillon · « **Reply #18 on:** February 24, 2011, 02:26:13 AM »

Two more photos have been added. V shape forend forward of the ramrod entry pipe.

http://www.neconos.com/detailssmooth.htm

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Author Topic: Rupp style "smooth rifle" (Read 8692 times)

eddillon

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greybeard

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tuffy

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