Planer vs Jointer

[Bioprof]

I'm thinking about buying a planer or jointer to use in preparing blanks for use as gunstocks.   I'm looking at either a 6" jointer or a 12 1/2" planer.   Which would be the most useful for stockmaking?

[fm tim]

Check this forum thread for an alternative

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=9437.0

an approach that uses a router instead of either a planer or a joiner.

[BrentD]

Planer.  Hands down.

[Robby]

Bioprof, I don't have a planer, so I can give you only one side of the question. I have a 6" jointer with both tables spanning a total of 48". I use it to true up the plane of the barrel first, and then that surface is placed against the fence and one side is trued to it. Which side depends on how I plan to lay out the gun. Being 6", it leaves material outside of that 6" on the blank, but it is easily removed with a hand plane. The same hand plane I use to do the whole job with.
My vote would be , the jointer, plus there are so many other uses for it, the planer, planes.
Robby

[TgeorgeZ]

I have a 6" jointer also.  How do you prevent tear out with curly grained wood?

[omark]

VERY sharp blades, feed slow, cross fingers, hold mouth right.   mark

[KentSmith]

have both and use the jointer for this.


A planer will finish both faces but not necessarily even up any warpage.  You might get a 2.5" thcik stock shaped like a bow.  A jointer will take out the warpage and give you a true thickness throughout the piece or as close as you can get.  I don't use either for gunmakeing unless I want to see the grain better on a rough cut blank.
 
I keep my knives sharp and feed slow and spray the wood surface with a little water.  The water provides a little flexibility to the wood fibers so they don't tear out as eaisily.  Doesn't need to be drenched.  You can keep tear out to a shallow minimum which should be good enough to get a blank dimensioned enough to do whatever you want to. 

Will be glad to get back to my shop.

[Bioprof]

Bioprof, I don't have a planer, so I can give you only one side of the question. I have a 6" jointer with both tables spanning a total of 48". I use it to true up the plane of the barrel first, and then that surface is placed against the fence and one side is trued to it. Which side depends on how I plan to lay out the gun. Being 6", it leaves material outside of that 6" on the blank, but it is easily removed with a hand plane. The same hand plane I use to do the whole job with.
My vote would be , the jointer, plus there are so many other uses for it, the planer, planes.
Robby

Most of the new jointers that I have seen for sale have a guard.   Am I correct to assume that you have to remove the guard to be able to lay the blank on its side to plane?

[Robby]

Yes, and it can be a little intimidating, but that is a good thing. I've used mine for many, many woodworking projects, even with the guard on, it creeps me out, but like I said that is a good thing. I always manage to keep my hands well away from the working part, push sticks can be made as well.

[44-henry]

I have both in my shop, but I agree with the earlier poster in  that you can do everything with a router and home built jig and you do not have to worry so much about tearout in figured stock.

[BrentD]

I have used a router to flatten a 300# slab of sugar maple, but it ain't a fun way to go. 

I can and do use my planer to flatten cupped, warped, and twisted planks w/o resorting to a jointer. 

Flattening a stock blank that is more than 6" wide on a 6" jointer can be done but it will be much more trouble and somewhat more dangerous than doing it with a jig in a planer. 

If there is one tool in my shop that is expendable, it is the joiner.  I do everything I want w/o it, and generally easier and faster.  I rate it probably second in importance after the table saw and second in convenience after the compound miter saw.

Brent

[tim crowe]

have both and use the jointer for this.


A planer will finish both faces but not necessarily even up any warpage.  You might get a 2.5" thcik stock shaped like a bow.  A jointer will take out the warpage and give you a true thickness throughout the piece or as close as you can get.  I don't use either for gunmakeing unless I want to see the grain better on a rough cut blank.
 

A Planer will "surface" both slides of the wood. It might in some cases plane "some what straight. But a jointer WILL joint a true straight edge at 90 degrees ie top and sides of your gun stock. A planer will not. 

A planer will plane straight if you joint one face of the stock  first on an jointer then run it through the planer. The planer will only surface a straight area that measures between the infeed out feed rollers.

Buy the jointer ;unless you are also making furniture and then will  need both.
You should be able to score a good deal on a good used jointer in this economy.

[BrentD]

You can flatten an untrue face in a planer.  It takes a jig, but it is not complicated.   And once built the jig will, of course, last forever.  Once one face is flat, the opposite face is, of course, a cinch to make flat and parallel.  Try flattening a 12" wide board with cup, twist, and warp on a 6" jointer - I've heard it can be done but it ain't easy, not by a long shot.  In planer, it is a cinch.  A planer is idea for stock blank truing.

The 90 degree jointed edge can be done on table or band saws which also do so many more functions. 

[BrentD]

This thread from Fine Wood Working's forums gives some idea of how to face a board with a planer.  It also references a jig plan that you cannot see w/o paying a subscription - at least I think that is how it works. 

If you look at this closely, you will see this method has it all over trying to flatten boards that are wider than the jointer. 

If the cup, warp and twist are not too bad, there are some other way to do this in a planer by using shims and a lot of blue tape.  That will absolutely work, but it is a PITA if you are going to do it often, thus the jig. 

I recommend that the sled be build in core-box construction much like a hollow interior door is made but more rigid of course.

[valongrifles]

Here in the Shenandoah Valley, I used to watch an old master cabinet maker "face joint" his lumber prior to furniture building. When his furniture comes up at auction today it always brings premium prices. He had an old Atlas 6"jointer that he could flatten one side even if over 6". He never did have a guard on it and used flat pieces of wood with sandpaper attached to hold down the boards. His take on just planing was " Warped in, Warped out". After planing(face jointing) he ran it through his old Parks or Hussey planer. When face jointing, you have to apply enough pressure so that the jointer does not take the piece away but not enough to flatten the face under pressure. Once face jointed flat, then that side down through the planer will eventually produce a flat piece on the up side with successive passes. Then, turn it over and resurface the other side. I made a gun rack with just-planed boards once and it had a twist that could not be made right. As for using a router, it is slow, but it works. A jig will also work, it just works faster with the face-jointer.

[BrentD]

That is exactly why you need to build a sled for face planing a warp, twisted board. 

Really, this is not a challenging problem, but jointing wide material on a 6" jointer IS challenging and then some!

The planer is FAR under appreciated by most people.  And the old adage, "warped in, warped out" proves just how little people appreciate what the average 12" lunch box planer can do and do better and faster than any 6" jointer. 

[44-henry]

Jointing and planing a board with a router is relatively quick when you use a 1.25 inch bit, it also works much better than the straight knives of the jointer and planer that one encounters on most machines today. It also takes up a lot less space in a small shop. I surfaced some three foot diameter logs for a science center once this way that would not have fit through even our industrial size machines.

[Ionian]

  The cabinet shop I apprenticed in, many moons ago, had a 14 inch jointer with a 4 blade head. That thing sounded like a helicopter taking off when you started it. It is definitely the right tool for the job, you definitely have to respect it though. They scare the $#*! out of me but I still have all of my fingers.

[P.W.Berkuta]

All VERY good info and does work ---- but you better start off with enough board thickness so you don't end up with less thickness that you are looking for or you will be making one of those suppository rifles instead

[Rootsy]

50 ways to skin the same cat.   

Use a jointer where jointing is required... If no jointer then you can make a jig and use the table saw or router.  You can joint with a router on a wide flat face with appropriate fixturing also.

I've used my 13" planer to achieve a flat face as stated.  But you must have a jig to do it.  The jig has a flat base and I have dogs on it that hold it down on edge face so that you don't have the clamps above surface.  The trick is to shim the piece so it rests in it's natural state.  For the machinists around here, bout like blanchard grinding a piece of steel that must have flatness. 

[twistedtree]

Who knows were I can find the plans to make the jig to flaten a warped board useing my planer?

[BrentD]

It is available on the Fine Woodworking website, though it might be behind a door you have to pay to go through.  That website is very complex and difficult 


You can also type "wood planer jig" into google. 

This is one I found that way
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/planer-sled/
But it does not appear as satisfactory as the FWW sled.

[Dale Campbell]

If your board is thick enough, and your planer wide enough, nail wood strips (1x4 or similar) to each side such that the strips are parallel to each other, and below the surface of the wood you are trying to plane. Run the wood with side strips through the planer, with the side strips down, using light cuts, until you have one flat surface. Remove the strips, flip the board so your flat surface is down and do the other side.

[bob in the woods]

This might sound like heresy, but if I take a 12 in wide by 4 in board [ 6 ft long] I can, with a straight edge and a hand plane, true up the surface faster than most can set up to do it with a  machine. Less trouble, less noise, less mess.

[twistedtree]

Moistening the wood sometimes works but this may lead to rust in the planer gears. Make sure you are planing the wood in the right direction with the grain pointing torward the feed in side of the planer. Sharp blades and it sometimes helps to take a larger cut. But still hold your mouth right and cross your fingers also.