Has she finally opened up?

[Roger Fisher]

Well here we are with a Getz .45 'cussin' rifle with well over 50,000 rds thru her since 89 (1989)  She got good care, seldom did a wood rod enter her bore, cleaned and oil etc up to par.  Been using .454 ball, 3 F goex
 in 50, 62, 75 and 80 grains from 25 to 100 yds and she shot where she was pointed.  Seems she is getting cranky or god forbid shot out finally.

Oh yes, using .015 olde tyme floral pillow ticking and spit for years.  Lately went to .018 teflon for longer range shooting....

The last 2 w walks she misbehaved and altho I was 'on' and felt they would be hits I had just toooo many misses.  As well known its hard to tell (in the bush) where  the shot actually went (high low right left)  Of course the good ol boys would tell me "high left at 4 O'clock" its good to have buddies

Yesterday shot her 55 yds from a rest with normal 62/65 gr and she shot a v loose group 3 in and said 'group' was 4 inches low.  Long story short I went up to 70/72 grains and she shot up where I wanted and group cut to decent!  

Now I'm asking you ol coons out there where do you look first?  Powder, go heavier patch, stay with the 72 grains at 55 yds., check the nipple for burn out or whats your pleasure???  I gotta tell ya she shot almost as good as my chunk gun (up to lately that is)   Another puzzle for me

btw the shot patches were perfect (all of them)

[Daryl]

Well here we are with a Getz .45 'cussin' rifle with well over 50,000 rds thru her since 89 (1989)  She got good care, seldom did a wood rod enter her bore, cleaned and oil etc up to par.  Been using .454 ball, 3 F goex
 in 50, 62, 75 and 80 grains from 25 to 100 yds and she shot where she was pointed.  Seems she is getting cranky or god forbid shot out finally.

Oh yes, using .015 olde tyme floral pillow ticking and spit for years.  Lately went to .018 teflon for longer range shooting....

The last 2 s walks she misbehaved and altho I was 'on' and felt they would be hits I had just toooo many misses.  As well known its hard to tell (in the bush) where  the shot actually went (high low right left)  Of course the good ol boys would tall me "high left at 4 O'clock" its good to have buddies

Yesterday shot her 55 yds from a rest with normal 62/65 gr and she shot a v loose group 3In and said 'group' was 4 inches low.  Long story short I went up to 70/72 grains and she shot up where I wanted and group cut to decent!  

Now I'm asking you ol coons out there where do you look first?  Powder, go heavier patch, stay with the 72 grains at 55 yds., check the nipple for burn out or whats your pleasure???  I gotta tell ya she shot almost as good as my chunk gun (up to lately that is)   Another puzzle for me

High left at 4 o'clock- now THAT's good!!!;D

By all means try a new nipple with a SMALL flash hole.

I'd merely shoot 75gr. - seems that the slick bore now wants more powder - no dilema for me. Problem solved and quit fighting that slick bore, Roger - enjoy it. The more powder you use, the flatter the trajectory.

[Dphariss]

Well here we are with a Getz .45 'cussin' rifle with well over 50,000 rds thru her since 89 (1989)  She got good care, seldom did a wood rod enter her bore, cleaned and oil etc up to par.  Been using .454 ball, 3 F goex
 in 50, 62, 75 and 80 grains from 25 to 100 yds and she shot where she was pointed.  Seems she is getting cranky or god forbid shot out finally.

Oh yes, using .015 olde tyme floral pillow ticking and spit for years.  Lately went to .018 teflon for longer range shooting....

The last 2 w walks she misbehaved and altho I was 'on' and felt they would be hits I had just toooo many misses.  As well known its hard to tell (in the bush) where  the shot actually went (high low right left)  Of course the good ol boys would tell me "high left at 4 O'clock" its good to have buddies

Yesterday shot her 55 yds from a rest with normal 62/65 gr and she shot a v loose group 3 in and said 'group' was 4 inches low.  Long story short I went up to 70/72 grains and she shot up where I wanted and group cut to decent!  

Now I'm asking you ol coons out there where do you look first?  Powder, go heavier patch, stay with the 72 grains at 55 yds., check the nipple for burn out or whats your pleasure???  I gotta tell ya she shot almost as good as my chunk gun (up to lately that is)   Another puzzle for me

If the nipple has been in use for awhile it could be the culprit.
I would tend to put some 120 grit Silicone Carbide powder on an oiled patch and run it up and down about 10 times. Why 120? Because a guy gave me a pastic jar of the stuff and I used it on an abused bore with good results.
The old timers used to say barrels would "shoot slick" and they would fill them with urine and let them set for awhile, maybe an hour(?) to etch the bore to restore accuracy.

Dan

[Roger Fisher]

Well here we are with a Getz .45 'cussin' rifle with well over 50,000 rds thru her since 89 (1989)  She got good care, seldom did a wood rod enter her bore, cleaned and oil etc up to par.  Been using .454 ball, 3 F goex
 in 50, 62, 75 and 80 grains from 25 to 100 yds and she shot where she was pointed.  Seems she is getting cranky or god forbid shot out finally.

Oh yes, using .015 olde tyme floral pillow ticking and spit for years.  Lately went to .018 teflon for longer range shooting....

The last 2 w walks she misbehaved and altho I was 'on' and felt they would be hits I had just toooo many misses.  As well known its hard to tell (in the bush) where  the shot actually went (high low right left)  Of course the good ol boys would tell me "high left at 4 O'clock" its good to have buddies

Yesterday shot her 55 yds from a rest with normal 62/65 gr and she shot a v loose group 3 in and said 'group' was 4 inches low.  Long story short I went up to 70/72 grains and she shot up where I wanted and group cut to decent!  

Now I'm asking you ol coons out there where do you look first?  Powder, go heavier patch, stay with the 72 grains at 55 yds., check the nipple for burn out or whats your pleasure???  I gotta tell ya she shot almost as good as my chunk gun (up to lately that is)   Another puzzle for me

If the nipple has been in use for awhile it could be the culprit.
I would tend to put some 120 grit Silicone Carbide powder on an oiled patch and run it up and down about 10 times. Why 120? Because a guy gave me a pastic jar of the stuff and I used it on an abused bore with good results.
The old timers used to say barrels would "shoot slick" and they would fill them with urine and let them set for awhile, maybe an hour(?) to etch the bore to restore accuracy.

Dan

Well, holy canolies thanx for the quick response (and free to)  She's slick alright and has been quite a few yrs.  I do suspect the nipple (I'll get at that tonite) Yes I took her out behind the barn before and found that ol trick is temporary at best (Barbara wondered what that yellow stuff in the jar on the shelf was )  She( the rifle not Barbara) will get the J-B bore paste treatment tonite.  And Daryl is right on the mark suggesting to enjoy a slick bore when you have one   I know that I was a little skimpy with the powder charge; but it worked fine up till couple or three wks ago.  Guess I'll change my ways (finally)   More help welcome!

[Daryl]

It is deceptively difficult to see small changes which happen over a period of time - which is how accuracy usually detiorates - especially when shooting gong-type targets like many of us do. Even targets get us to believing we're losing it, or having a 'bad streak', when the problem might be mechanical.

The 'slick' shooting has been happening to Roger for a long time - this is the 3rd such thread he's stated on this subject with THAT barrel.

I'd not JB it as that is simply more and a finer polish, Roger. Even Flitz, which is more aggressive than JB compound, is still a fine polish.

Perhaps it's time to retire the barrel, "but it's such a good shooting barrel" - well, in that case, Dan's suggestion with the 120 grit is a good one- perhaps even 100 or 80 grit would be better yet, longer lasting.  If the scratches run lengthwise, the accuracy should not be harmed in the least.

Oh yeah - wooden rods created less wear in my tests, than any other material. I neglected to try carbon, but I suspect it will be almost as bad as fiberglass. All materials tested were unprotected, of course.  Testing a coated rod is merely testing the coating, not what the rod is made of.

I'd simply use more powder  oh yeah- already said that.

[hanshi]

Do folks still have barrels "freshened" like back in the old days?  If so could the barrel be "freshened" to .46 or thereabout?

[Roger Fisher]

Do folks still have barrels "freshened" like back in the old days?  If so could the barrel be "freshened" to .46 or thereabout?

The ans to that is certainly yes and I've been thinking about that for more than a couple years or ask Bobby Hoyt to reline her.......I hated to give her up since I use the old rifle most every weekend yr round......I do know 2 ol boys that would do this altho they are not in the 'business'!   (I have a notion that they would be just thrilled to get their hands on the ol girl)   Your suggestion is a good one.  More welcome.

[bgf]

Lately went to .018 teflon for longer range shooting....

Not really qualified to contribute, but here's something that caught my eye.  I wonder if it isn't building up in the grooves and resistant to your normal cleaning regimen.  Mine does something similar shooting oiled patches (remember the Murphy's Oil Soap thread), but it comes back with a few harsh chemicals and some polishing compound -- don't know what would work on teflon.  I've switched to mostly WWF, to see if that helps, but it will take a thousand or so balls to say .  Nipple should be examined/replaced along with cleanout screw (if you have one).

[omark]

this hasnt been suggested and should be a last resort if the other ideas fail.  i would first try  coning the barrel, if that didnt work, try cutting her off. would still be pc as many were shortened.  mark

[gregg]

Wife had a TC hawkin barrel act like that. Had it cut just few thousandth. at the frizin(sp) shop.
went from a .490 ball to .500 ball. Shot like it allwayhad. Like a house afire. Best shooting TC I have
ever seen.

[bob in the woods]

New nipple,and more powder. I'd check the cleaning since you use teflon .   I have a Green Mountain barrel likethat in .54    It is on my underhammer target rifle.   After 2 thous. rounds, went from .535 to a .54 ball   After a few more thousand rounds,
I gave it a good scrub with fine steel wool. Over 20 thousand now and still a tack driver, but needs more powder then a baby    Oh ya...went to a heavier denim patch too. Too bad it's a percussion, or else I'd shoot it more!

[Don Getz]

Roger.........You might try what Bob said above.  If you're shooting teflon, you will get a build up of that stuff in the barrel.
I think I would replace the nipple, could be that the old one has opened up a bit, just like a touch hole.  I know that when
a touch hole opens up it will affect the way a gun shoots.   If you're coming to the Artisan's show, talk to John about it.
Don

[Dphariss]

Do folks still have barrels "freshened" like back in the old days?  If so could the barrel be "freshened" to .46 or thereabout?

It would require some measurement to see if this was a possible fix.
I don't believe that modern steel barrels erode as fast as the iron barrels did/do.

RB barrels will get loose in the breech and a tight oiled patch may show this.
If its loose at the breech a tight ball may be a fix.
It might be possible to lap it out but this can be a lot of work if more than a few ten thousands need to be moved.
Freshing is an option as well and it needs a lead lap and a cutter to match first the grooves and once these are cleaned and uniformed the lands are cut down to the proper height.
Myself if roughing the bore, the load changes, tighter ball and maybe a change in powder charge does not make it work I would simply have it rebarreled unless I wanted to fresh it for the experience.

Dan

[Roger Fisher]

Roger.........You might try what Bob said above.  If you're shooting teflon, you will get a build up of that stuff in the barrel.
I think I would replace the nipple, could be that the old one has opened up a bit, just like a touch hole.  I know that when
a touch hole opens up it will affect the way a gun shoots.   If you're coming to the Artisan's show, talk to John about it.
Don

That teflon will come out w/the green scotchbrite or 0000 wool tonite. Good Ol George Dech told me yrs ago that he would never use the teflon for just that reason.  Of course, since I'm a little stubborn and since it shoots nice and tight groups I use it for the shooting over 50 yds which is less frequent than pounding at 25 and even 50yds...

Nipple replaced last night didn't compare the new with the old except by eyeball it did look a frog hair larger compared with the new.  Both are Uncle Mike's stainless.. Gotta admit there were a heck of a lot of shots through that old one.  So we'll see.

[bgf]

Just make sure you let us know how it turns out, good, bad, or indifferent.  I hate being left hanging .

[Paddlefoot]

Another thing to think about related to the nipple is the length and how strong the mainspring is. I had a mainspring get weak on an old L&R lock on my Hawken and the groups went crazy. Couldn't figure it out until it started blowing the hammer back til it caught on the fly. A new spring brought her back to normal.

[Roger Fisher]

Another thing to think about related to the nipple is the length and how strong the mainspring is. I had a mainspring get weak on an old L&R lock on my Hawken and the groups went crazy. Couldn't figure it out until it started blowing the hammer back til it caught on the fly. A new spring brought her back to normal.

Darn good point and I have (in the past) had cussin rifles (at least one) that the hammer came back to half draw she got a new M spring for that reason.  I can't remember if it had messed up the shooting results or not. It was many yrs ago.

The rifle that is the subject of this entire thread does not pop the hammer back; but if the new nipple and the  0000 wool soaked in grease and grit compound done tonite does not cure her, she will also get a new main spring.  (it isn't that I don't have any She will get a shootin test b/4 too long.