Author Topic: Soddy Daisy question  (Read 10295 times)

Offline Ken G

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Re: Soddy Daisy question
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2019, 01:22:21 AM »
Arnie,

Thank you so much for the information and confirming the existence of another Soddy rifle with that mark.  A similar mark seems to be on the rifle "Track of the Wolf" has on its website for the percussion, Southern Mountain Rifle. 

The first rifle pictured in this thread is mine.  I have not found any maker marks on it.  The similar architecture and sideplate but different triggerguard styles really has me scratching my head. 

Thanks again for the info!

Cheers,
Ken
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Offline Sequatchie Rifle

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Re: Soddy Daisy question
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2019, 04:56:28 AM »
I have, or had, a rifle with that mark and finally convinced myself that it was an indentation from a screw head. Ill go out to the smokehouse this week and dig through my pile of old hog guns. Maybe I still have it. Glad you resurrected the post Ken!
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Offline Ken G

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Re: Soddy Daisy question
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2019, 01:54:54 PM »
A friend was kind enough to share another example of a Soddy rifle with the same stamp.  I have permission to share with the group in hopes we can collectively figure the origins of the stamp. 

Thanks,
Ken




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Offline WESTbury

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Re: Soddy Daisy question
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2019, 04:41:26 PM »
Good Morning,

Were any of the builders of these rifles Masons?

 There are Masonic symbols having the configuration of the stampings on these rifles. Sounds "far fetched" right. Not really, there were at least two dozen Masons working at Springfield Armory during the period from 1796 through the early 1840's and probably beyond that date as well. Some of these Masons had stamps with Masonic symbols and used them during their duties to mark the musket components they worked on, as required in Armory Regulations. Two of these identified symbols were the Ever Seeing Eye and the Square and Compass. This is all documented in a Man at Arms article in Vol 35, No. 4, August 2013 by Kent W. Johns and Peter A. Schmidt. Also in Appendix F in the book Springfield Armory Infantry Muskets 1795-1844 by Kent W. Johns, published in 2015 by Mowbray Publishers.

I've attached a sheet I found, during my research for the book and magazine article, showing some of the many Masonic Symbols. Please notice that two of the circle symbols bear a striking resemblance to two of the symbols of two rifles posted in this thread.

Also attached are two of my personal photos that show Masonic Symbols on the lockplates of two Springfield Armory muskets, one dated 1806 (Ever Seeing Eye) and the other 1823 ( Square and Compass). I've identified eighteen Springfield flintlock lockplates with Masonic Symbols.

 Just a thought. Thanks for your attention.




« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 09:18:22 PM by WESTbury »
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Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Soddy Daisy question
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2019, 05:02:11 PM »
 :o :o :o... WESTbury might just be onto something, here,... !!! ... if not Masonic, maybe some other fraternal organization,... I do know that "The Grange" was active in the SE TN area about that time,... others as well,... symbol does resemble the one in the 7 o'clock position on your chart,.... Now, Ken,.. that is a great looking Soddy,... is she maker marked,..?... also all are known guns marked with the subject symbol heavy match rifles or lighter guns, too,...??? ... interesting subject,... regards,... Cades Cove Fiddler,......

Offline Arnie Dowd

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Re: Soddy Daisy question
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2019, 05:45:33 PM »
My "J.C." (assuming  Clements Sr.) is a typical, lighter (for its size) off hand, rifle;  not that it could not have been used in a match.  It has a  42 inc barrel of  .40 caliber.  I believe it has been shortened about 6" due to sight being moved and where the initials are stamped.  At 42" it makes it a much nicer off-hand size.
Otherwise its in very nice condition.
Arnie

Offline WESTbury

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Re: Soddy Daisy question
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2019, 07:05:21 PM »
Ken,

There are two Masonic Lodges in Soddy-Daisy. They are Lodge #418 & #706. They should have a listing of all past members, the Masons are  very organized and proud of their heritage.

If you contact them and tell them why you are seeking info, they may be glad to help.
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
      Lyndon B. Johnson Oct 21, 1964

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Soddy Daisy question
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2019, 05:10:22 AM »
 ??? ??? ???... might just be worth a call & visit to Soddy soon,... !!!

Offline Cades Cove Fiddler

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Re: Soddy Daisy question
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2019, 05:14:41 AM »
 :o :o :o... Arnie,... post some photos,.... always good to see the interesting rifles you have found,... !!! ... hope to talk soon,... hope all is well....

Offline Ken G

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Re: Soddy Daisy question
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2019, 01:43:43 PM »
Thanks for all the comments and ideas.   I would like to see some pictures also if you would be so kind as to post them for all to see and study.  The emergence of this stock architecture has always caught my interest. 

Thanks,
Ken
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Offline Arnie Dowd

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Re: Soddy Daisy question
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2019, 05:31:03 PM »
I will try to get my daughter to help me as I am no good at taking and posting photos with my phone.  My age is a factor !  It will take a few days as a few of you know both my wife and son are sick and live here with me.  Will say that it has a nice cigar-shaped patchbox as would be expected and really great TG.
Arnie Dowd

Offline Ken G

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Re: Soddy Daisy question
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2019, 05:52:28 PM »
Thanks!   We will all enjoy and study the pictures when you are able to share.

Ken
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Offline johngross

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Re: Soddy Daisy question
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2019, 07:14:51 PM »
Just an observation, for what it's worth. The mark is located right about where a military inspectors cartouche was placed on rifles/muskets from that era.

Offline WESTbury

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Re: Soddy Daisy question
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2019, 04:27:31 AM »
For those who have not read it, there is a good but somewhat dated 18 page article on Tennessee Rifles on the ASAC website.

AmericanSocietyofArmsCollectors.org by Robert C. Hale presented in 1970
"We are not about to send American Boys 9 to 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian Boys ought to be doing for themselves."
      Lyndon B. Johnson Oct 21, 1964

Offline Ken G

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Re: Soddy Daisy question
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2019, 04:49:22 AM »
WESTbury,

Robin's paper is something I pull out and re-read every year or so.  I sure wish I'd have had a chance to meet him. 

Cheers,
Ken
tnken@windstream.net
Failure only comes when you stop trying.