Questions on assembling early Brown Bess lock kit.

[Artificer]

The recent posts on assembling and tuning lock kits spurred these questions.

I'm referring to the "1746 - Willits, Brown Bess Musket Flint Lock Kit"

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=14&subId=148&styleId=831&partNum=LOCK-BESS-46

I've never assembled a lock from a cast parts kit, though I have done lock work before.  Has anyone assembled one of these and found any problems or pitfalls one should look for or be cautious of? 

Any information would be most appreciated.

Gus

[Joe S]

I have a very similar lock from the Rifle Shoppe.  I ended up having to make all the springs and screws, plus straighten out the lock plate.  But, screws are easy and springs are fun to make.  Other than that, a lathe is a handy thing to have, although you can get by with a drill press or electric drill.

I had something like 100 hours in assembling my first lock.  A lot of that was learning curve, and I think I could do another one in about half the time.

[LRB]

 Artificer, you can do it all with files, a brace and bit, and brick dust to polish.  Or you can do it precisely using a lathe, mill, drill press, and automotive sand paper, or a combination thereof.  However, the latter would not be period correct, now would it? Of course, cast parts would not pass either would they? Anyhow, the metals they have chosen to use, and the heat treat info they give, are not the best for the requirements at hand.  At least in how they are to be used and heat treated. Research your heat treat for these metals  before doing it by their recomendations. Although, what they recommend may work, it might become a question of, how well, and for how long. I would strongly suggest you get in contact with Jim Kibler before any heat treat of their parts. He would be able to tell you the best way to go with that. If you do not have a heat treat oven, I can do it for you, to Jim Kiblers specs, as long as I have the necessary quench oil, and I believe I do. A sort of truce offering, unless Kibler agrees with their recommended methods, and as he is a metallurgist, I doubt that.

[pathfinder]

the only problem I had was getting the frizzen to spark well. Took over 30 minutes of Kasinet before I finally got good reliable sparks. Well over 500 shots through her and still sparks well. It was rather challenging to build since I'm not a machinest of any sort. Only thru the fine advise on this site was I able to "Get-er-Done!

[Artificer]

Nice job on the Rifle Shoppe lock Joe S.

[Artificer]

  Anyhow, the metals they have chosen to use, and the heat treat info they give, are not the best for the requirements at hand.  At least in how they are to be used and heat treated. Research your heat treat for these metals  before doing it by their recomendations. Although, what they recommend may work, it might become a question of, how well, and for how long. I would strongly suggest you get in contact with Jim Kibler before any heat treat of their parts. He would be able to tell you the best way to go with that. If you do not have a heat treat oven, I can do it for you, to Jim Kiblers specs, as long as I have the necessary quench oil, and I believe I do. A sort of truce offering, unless Kibler agrees with their recommended methods, and as he is a metallurgist, I doubt that.

LRB,

That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for.  I don't have a lathe or mill, but have access to them.  Same thing for a heat treat oven.

Very much appreciate the offer of your services to heat treat.  I may just do that and pay you the appropriate fee of course.

Gus

[Artificer]

the only problem I had was getting the frizzen to spark well. Took over 30 minutes of Kasinet before I finally got good reliable sparks. Well over 500 shots through her and still sparks well. It was rather challenging to build since I'm not a machinest of any sort. Only thru the fine advise on this site was I able to "Get-er-Done!

Great info.  Thank you.
Gus

[Joe S]

You don't need an oven for heat treating.  Two MAPP torches will get the frizzen hot enough, and one torch is enough for the springs and other parts that need heat treatment.  Jim Chambers instructions for heat treatment are much better than the Rifle Shoppe's methods.  For tempering, I like a lead bath at 700 degrees.   

[Artificer]

Joe,

Thanks.  I have a Mapp and Oxy Torch at home, but I also have access to an oxy-acetylene torch. 
Gus

[Artificer]

Gents,

Your answers have spurred some further questions. 

Maybe I'm wrong, but do I get the impression that it would be better to make a tumbler and sear from a different type of steel than the cast parts - to use with the kit?  Since I  have access to a lathe and mill, perhaps it would be better to make the tumbler because then it would be more precise and could be fitted to the lockplate more precisely?  I do not have a forging die for the sear, but I could heat/bend the tail of the sear from a piece of steel and cut out the rest of the sear from the piece of tool steel. 

Also, I realize this is cheating, but I'm thinking about using original an M1842 mainspring and sear spring for the kit.  I have a good supply of both of these parts.  Then I would only have to worry about making the frizzen spring from the cast piece in the kit or a separate spring.  I have never made lock springs and have to admit I'm a bit concerned about making them, especially from cast parts.  Maybe I'm way off base, but I wonder about the grain/structure of the steel from a cast part to make springs?

I may be way over thinking here, though.
Gus

[Joe S]

People who know a lot more about springs than I do say that a forged spring is better than a cast spring.  That being said, keep in mind that all of the commercial locks use cast springs, and they work just fine.  The reason I had to make my own springs is that the Rifle Shoppe sent me the wrong springs, and I didn't want to wait for a year or so for them to send the right ones.

There is no reason to make a new tumbler and sear that I can think of.  They are cast from 4140, which is fine steel for this application.  The parts should be oversized enough that you can get a good fit.

Springs are not hard to make.  If you decide to make your own, get a book called Simplified V-Springs by Kit Ravenshear.  If you search the archives on this site, you can find answers to any questions you have about hardening lock parts and tempering springs.  An easy way to narrow your search would be to look through Jerry Huddleston's posts.

I just started working on a new lock from the Rifle Shoppe.  This is an early flat faced Dutch lock.  With this lock, the pan is separate from the lock plate.  I have a good fit between these two parts, but there are some casting flaws on the face of the lock plate.  By the time I get those filed out there is going to be a gap between the pan and the lock plate that will have to be welded.  So it goes.  Other than that, the rest of the parts look OK.  We will see.  Building a lock from cast parts is more of an adventure than a kit assembly process.

[Artificer]

Joe,

Thank you for the additional information.  I really appreciate it.

Gus