Author Topic: Drilling ram rod hole...?  (Read 10218 times)

Tenn Hills Guy

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Drilling ram rod hole...?
« on: October 07, 2008, 05:30:49 PM »
Straight that is!  Tried starting with a 3/16th's bit, but after about 10", it started to wander.  You guys have some tricks?  Maybe I should have cut the groove first and gone in from the front..

HistoricalArmsMaker

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Re: Drilling ram rod hole...?
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2008, 07:04:37 PM »
Hate to tell ya, but small diameter drills do wander. And once you have the hole started, any additional drilling will simply follow the hole. I need a bit more info to help. How much work and where are you in your process? Barrel in, lock inlet, etc,

Draw on the outside of your wood where your barrels bottom is from the muzzle to the breech end of the barrel, without regard between the two points. (You only drill a straight hole). Once you determine this line, measure down the web thickness; between 1/8 and 3/16 depending on you. (I put mine in at a skinny 1/8", but that takes practice and has no room for "new builder" error); and draw this new line. This is the top of your rod hole and the base of your rod channel up the forestock. Your rod should be 2/3's exposed and lay out the dimension (whether 5/16 or 3/8). Leave a little extra for shaping the upper forestock along the rods finished edge.
I cut my excess wood off the stocks bottom so its not in my way and doesn't restrict the drill.. Now flip the stock belly up and mark out the rod channel on the bottom of the stock and cut a little groove up the forestock. I use a rat tail 5/16 wood rasp to make short order of cutting the channel out. Lay your drill in and use a couple pieces of leather shoestrings to tie the drill down 4 inches back from the muzzle and about the same from the entry hole and drill an inch and withdraw. Repeat. Use a little soap for lubricant, or beeswax though that gets sticky if you get into trouble. The drills which are solid tend to wander. Tubing with the brad point bit silver soldered into the end works fabulous and doesn't wander unless you steer it wrong.
Let us know how far you are into this project. Theres a lot of experience floatin around in here. We can help!
Susie

Offline rich pierce

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Re: Drilling ram rod hole...?
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2008, 08:16:08 PM »
Straight that is!  Tried starting with a 3/16th's bit, but after about 10", it started to wander.  You guys have some tricks?  Maybe I should have cut the groove first and gone in from the front..

How else can you drill it except to make a groove and go in from the front? ???
Andover, Vermont

Offline P.W.Berkuta

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Re: Drilling ram rod hole...?
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2008, 09:46:01 PM »
Susanne, I LIKE the tube idea 8) - how thick is your tubing wall? I have some S/S 3/8" thin wall tubing but it seems a little too flexable to stay on course :-\.
"The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." - Chinese proverb

Tenn Hills Guy

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Re: Drilling ram rod hole...?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2008, 04:31:21 AM »
Maybe should have explained a little more what I was doing.  This is for a swivel breech forestock.  There is so little wood after slicing the forestock down the middle, I decided to try and start from the rear thinking I could better control the depth (height if you will).  since I have wood longer than needed, I have reversed it and started with a groove.  From there, I'll go at with some of above mentioned methods.  For sure, the smaller bits do flex-I started with a 3/16th's.  The tubing/brad point sounds worth the effort. 

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: Drilling ram rod hole...?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2008, 04:57:14 AM »
I purchased a tubing/brad point drill assembly from Susie and have now used it on 6 guns. It works wonderfully, and that is really an under statement. As long as it is started straight, and run slowly,clearing every inch; it drives straight as an arrow. I highly recommend them.

Tenn Hills Guy

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Re: Drilling ram rod hole...?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2008, 06:04:22 PM »
I did not make the connection!  I recently bought my first order from them and was impressed with the quality.  I now see where she has these long bits already made up.

keweenaw

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Re: Drilling ram rod hole...?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2008, 06:13:11 PM »
Since you could drill from the rear, I see why you thought this might be a good idea but it isn't.  What is important is where the hole merges with the ramrod groove, not where it ends up.  In drilling these holes you should always use the drill size for the hole you want as the smaller the drill, the less stiff and more likely to wander. What you should probably do is to glue an appropriate size dowel into you curved, blind hole to fill it completely then redrill from the front.

Tom

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Drilling ram rod hole...?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2008, 06:49:40 PM »
Straight that is!  Tried starting with a 3/16th's bit, but after about 10", it started to wander.  You guys have some tricks?  Maybe I should have cut the groove first and gone in from the front..

If you need a 3/8" hole you start with a 3/8 drill. It is easy enough to flex a 3/8" and cause problems. A 3/16" would be near impossible to keep straight.
How do you drill from the back unless its a 2 piece stock?
Maybe we need a picture.
Dan
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Tenn Hills Guy

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Re: Drilling ram rod hole...?
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2008, 11:23:14 PM »
Since I believe you've built the  swivel breech, how do you approach the ram rod construction.   Since I'm using 13/16th barrels, there isn't much wood.  It might have been better to start  the rod hole while the forestock was in one piece, but I decided to split it in two.  Given this is my first attempt at the SB, it was my best guess.  As I mentioned, I left plenty of length so I just flipped it end for end, and will go at it from the more traditional approach.

HistoricalArmsMaker

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Re: Drilling ram rod hole...?
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2008, 04:37:55 PM »
Susanne, I LIKE the tube idea 8) - how thick is your tubing wall? I have some S/S 3/8" thin wall tubing but it seems a little too flexable to stay on course :-\.

We use aircraft tubing. Its expensive! But its guaranteed perfection to us when we get it. We have tried other tubing but this has been the best. No flex at all. The walls are at least .062 but could be more since I don't know what their "guage" is. We haven't had a single one complained about or returned since I started making them this way years ago.
Susie

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Drilling ram rod hole...?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2008, 05:38:41 PM »
Since I believe you've built the  swivel breech, how do you approach the ram rod construction.   Since I'm using 13/16th barrels, there isn't much wood.  It might have been better to start  the rod hole while the forestock was in one piece, but I decided to split it in two.  Given this is my first attempt at the SB, it was my best guess.  As I mentioned, I left plenty of length so I just flipped it end for end, and will go at it from the more traditional approach.

Swivel breeches with 2 piece forends are simply grooved for the rod and it runs in the groove formed by the barrels. At least thats how I did mine.
The forends are held in place by the locks at the rear, screws through to the rod pipes and the forend cap. Using 2 pieces makes things easier when using swamped or tapered barrels.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Metalshaper

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Re: Drilling ram rod hole...?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2008, 08:55:35 PM »
jumping in on something Suzie said.. aircraft 4130 makes great tubing for long drill bit shafts!  check out www.airpartsinc.com  they are great people and can get you all you need.  ;) <  they even have the Vixen files, that was mentioned a while back.>
 
I even used a heavy wall tube, to make an improvised gundrill, and helped drill a gun barrel with it. In that situation is can feed cutting fluid, right to  where its needed and flush chips..

Hope it helps?

Respect Always
Metalshaper

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Drilling ram rod hole...?
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2008, 06:01:31 AM »
jumping in on something Suzie said.. aircraft 4130 makes great tubing for long drill bit shafts!  check out www.airpartsinc.com  they are great people and can get you all you need.  ;) <  they even have the Vixen files, that was mentioned a while back.>
 
I even used a heavy wall tube, to make an improvised gundrill, and helped drill a gun barrel with it. In that situation is can feed cutting fluid, right to  where its needed and flush chips..

Hope it helps?

Respect Always
Metalshaper
Gun drills used for drilling barrels are welded to a tube with a v groove in it full length that matches the cut in the carbide tip.  It is used to carry oil and the groove lets out the chips and oil as the hole gets deep.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

Offline Metalshaper

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Re: Drilling ram rod hole...?
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2008, 04:52:42 PM »

[/quote]
Gun drills used for drilling barrels are welded to a tube with a v groove in it full length that matches the cut in the carbide tip.  It is used to carry oil and the groove lets out the chips and oil as the hole gets deep.

Dan
[/quote]

Dan,

  I know very well what a standard gundrill is and how they work.  and I've drilled using a factory bit!    But, I clearly stated in my message it was an "Improvised" gundrilling bit, that I made.. <which  worked really well ! ;) >

 I guess my real message failed, in being clear that I was  trying to recommend  Airparts Inc, as a source for chromoly tubing??

My Bad!

Respect Always
Metalshaper

Offline Randall Steffy

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Re: Drilling ram rod hole...?
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2008, 09:45:00 PM »
Tenn Hills Guy,
When building a swivel breech with a forearm constructed of right and left hand slabs, I would personally take the following road.
Rout or cut the ramrod groove, muzzle to entry thimble, as per standard method. Then flip slab over and rout a groove from the swivel plate to the ramrod entry thimble. If drilling is necessary at all it will be the short distance between the two grooves, the one visible and the one hidden when the slab is attached to the barrels. This will allow the thickest possible wood over the ramrod where it is buried.
I hope this addresses your question, at least offering an option.

Offline Dphariss

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Re: Drilling ram rod hole...?
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2008, 05:41:48 AM »

Gun drills used for drilling barrels are welded to a tube with a v groove in it full length that matches the cut in the carbide tip.  It is used to carry oil and the groove lets out the chips and oil as the hole gets deep.

Dan
[/quote]

Dan,

  I know very well what a standard gundrill is and how they work.  and I've drilled using a factory bit!    But, I clearly stated in my message it was an "Improvised" gundrilling bit, that I made.. <which  worked really well ! ;) >

 I guess my real message failed, in being clear that I was  trying to recommend  Airparts Inc, as a source for chromoly tubing??

My Bad!

Respect Always
Metalshaper
[/quote]

And I was indicating it was a good idea. Which I guess I failed at ::)
Tubing is a great idea even if oil feed is not needed.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine