Flintlock Timing - Bad Luck and good Luck

[Larry Pletcher]

I got set up yesterday to time three Siler locks that were tuned by different fellows. They each have unusual things done to them, and I wanted to get a quick ball park ideas about them and needed to check my equipment before beginning serious stuff.

But-- the computer wouldn't work. This is a setup used in 1980's high school physics classes in our area - Apple IIe, college built interface, and software written in a summer college class. It's all held together for these many years.

The hassle is that no specific equipment is made like it today. When the interface dies, I'm done. Any way, I wasn't sure if the problem was the disk drive or the old 5.25" disk. I looked for my backup disk and couldn't find it. Must have put in a extra safe place. I spent the great part of the day looking for the disk, swapping disk drives around until I managed to get it working. I'm running on a different drive and have many backup disks stored away in case this happens again.

So much for bad luck now the good

I ran times on 2 of the three locks:

------Lock A-----Lock B
1-----0.0343----0.0405
2-----0.0372----0.0474
3-----0.0353----0.0457
4-----0.0401----0.0446
5-----0.0419----0.0458
6-----0.0422----0.0433
7-----0.0480----0.0497
8-----0.0473----0.0471
9-----0.0488----0.0536
10----0.0495----0.0564

ave:--0.0425----0.0474

difference:---0.0069

The locks should not be compared directly at this point. There are too many variables to address:

different flint
different spring rates
bushings
bearings
pan widths

BTW - my thanks to Jim Chambers for all his assistance.  He has been instrumental in a lot of my testing and photography. I am blessed to receive the his help.

Regards,
Pletch

[FL-Flintlock]

Wow that brings back memories!  You still running a green screen on that dinosaur?  Was talking to a kid a few weeks ago, brought up the 5.25" floppies and he didn't believe me ... didn't believe that the Commodore drive was three times the size of a laptop either.

[Larry Pletcher]

Should have include this:




The circuit board to the right of the Apple is the interface we made in a summer computer class.  When all parts of it were working, I could fire the lock have the computer wait .003 of a second and then fire a flash attachment and take a photo.  I did a set where the there was a .001 sec delay in each photo.  You could thumb the photos and watch a "movie" - like we did with cartoons.  I haven't tried that kind of timed pics in a long time.

Regards,
Pletch

[SCLoyalist]

brought up the 5.25" floppies and he didn't believe me ...

Heck - I remember punched paper tape on ASR33 teletypes (ca. 1966), 8" floppy media (1975, with 256KB of storage per floppy) ,  and core memory where each bit was strung (I think by hand) with 3 wires running through a donut shaped core at right angles to each other - I think it was one wire to sense  the core's polarity as zero or one, and the other two to set the core to zero or one).   

Trips down memory lane aside, you might be able to go to the local tech school, junior college, and find some whiz kid who can build you a new test rig.   

[Daryl]

Thanks for your work on  timing locks, Larry.  I am wondering what the times would be for a stock lock, no tuning per-se,jsut like the average person (like me) would put on a rifle.  I lucked out with my L&R Dickert lock - turned out to be the fastest lock I've seen so far.

[Larry Pletcher]

Hi Daryl,
If you are referring to me, my first name is Larry instead of Rich, but any name except "late for supper" will do.

I do have a box stock Siler that will be a 4th addition to this series.  It belongs to Steve Chapman, who will be helping run the tests.

One interesting thing about this series is that we want to compare stiff vs mild springs, especially with regards to the frizzen spring.  In fact one shooter, on another forum, weakened his springs as per one bit of advice and rendered in nonfunctional.  He sent it to a couple of the "good guys" and now has a fine lock. 

None of the locks we'll be testing have been weakened to this extent.  In fact the locks all perform very well.  Following is a description of the three non-stock locks:

The oldest lock has just been rebuilt. It was my test bed lock since the 80s. Jim Chambers went through it replacing most parts -- I think the lock plate is the same though! New stiff springs, bronze bushing. -- first lock I will time with a bronze bushing.

Next is a lock that resulted from an article from the 90s.  Jim sent me this lock with 3 tumblers and 2 cocks. I timed all 6 combinations in 1990 I think. I bought the lock with the combination I liked the best. Cocking the lock feels like pulling a compound bow. You can feel it "break" as it reaches half cock. Marvelous lock!

The third is a Deluxe Siler that Sam Everly built, adding tiny ball bearing races on both sides of the tumbler. He also widened the pan and installed milder springs. The lock is silky smooth.

The first two locks may be a tad quicker because of the springs - I don't know yet. The lock with the "compound pull" seems very quick. The Chambers bronze bushing lock may be the best of both worlds. The Everly lock is without a doubt the smoothest of the three. It has a feel of the English locks of the late flint period. I'm looking forward to a complete test.

Because these locks are different in so many ways, we may not be able to claim that the results are because of one particular attribute.  But what fun anyway!  My thanks to Jim Chambers for his considerable help and to Sam Everly for his bearing lock.  It's a real keeper.

Regards,
Pletch
"Larry"

[Daryl]

Sorry, Pletch - I mean Larry, of course.

Compound pull?- softer to start, then harder to full cock, or like a compound bow, hard at the end of the throw, (start of the pull) and soft tail/top travel to full cock like I think an English cap lock is?

Regardless, I am very much lookng forward to seeing the results.

[Larry Pletcher]

The pull is hard at first.  Just before half cock, the pull is decreased dramatically.  When cocking the lock in your hands, you have to really concentrate to stop at half cock.  If I hand it to you and ask you to set lock to half cock, i'd bet you end up on full cock.  In the gun, it's no sweat.  Out of the gun you have to pay attention.

I think the effect is caused by moving the main spring closer to the tumbler foot.  As the cock comes back, the spring rides higher on the foot - closer to the tumbler's center line.  Does that sound reasonable?  There is likely to be more to it than that;  this was a non stock tumbler too.  In fact, as tested, this lock has a cock that has a longer throw, non stock tumbler, and the main spring moved closer to the tumbler.  Any of these could have a part in this.

Regards,
Pletch

[Daryl]

How it sparks is the most important aspect.  We're interested.