Author Topic: Hunting bag question  (Read 6707 times)

FRJ

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Hunting bag question
« on: January 23, 2011, 06:34:15 PM »
I see these bags with the bever tail flap and wonder how necessary this is? I don't particularly like them and was wondering why I can't have the flat cut flap that I do like and still be considered treditional? I'm sure most of these bags were individually made and passed on from generation. Surely someone liked the even, flat cut flap as I do. Frank

Offline Longknife

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Re: Hunting bag question
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2011, 06:43:02 PM »
Its just a style, The extra length and weight kinda helps hold the flap down. I think it is popular now days because of the cool name "Beaver tail" (gotta get one!!!!!). There were many pouched made with rounded flaps.....do what works best for you...Ed
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 06:46:01 PM by Longknife »
Ed Hamberg

FRJ

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Re: Hunting bag question
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2011, 08:00:45 PM »
Ed thanks for your reply. I am going to keep doing what I like, bein politically correct sucks anyhow!!!!!!! I like my bag as it is, it has a rounded flap, tooling and leather laced all around. I much prefer the leather lacing as I believe its much stronger and longer lasting than thread. As for tooling, it has been around MUCH longer than flintlocks or percussion caps so I can't see where it would be incorrect for any time period.Again Ed thank you very much for your reply. Frank

Offline Beaverman

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Re: Hunting bag question
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2011, 08:02:20 PM »
Build what you like, many examples of several different flaps on original pouches
« Last Edit: January 23, 2011, 08:03:19 PM by Beaverman »

BrownBear

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Re: Hunting bag question
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2011, 08:03:07 PM »
I agree with Longknife.  It's a style thing.  In my experience, they aren't all that much better for helping keep the bag closed unless made with the flap a separate piece sewed to the back.  If the back and flap are one piece, they don't stay close well enough for me.  The thing is, when you sew the flap to the back with a rounded style, it stays closed just as well as a beavertail in my experience, so it's just not necessary if you don't like it.

Offline hanshi

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Re: Hunting bag question
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2011, 09:05:48 PM »
I put bead work on both my rounded flap bags and that little extra weight helps keep it closed.
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Offline pathfinder

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Re: Hunting bag question
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2011, 01:50:55 AM »
After makin' bags and stuff fer a LONG time,I've started to seriousley study how bags were made and styles of bags and have concluded there is no "right" style or correct way to make them. However you make it, as long as you are happy with it,go with it! Bags with the back and flap as one piece,if made with soft and relitively thin leather will have no issues with the flap staying down
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Offline James Rogers

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Re: Hunting bag question
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2011, 02:30:27 AM »
After makin' bags and stuff fer a LONG time,I've started to seriousley study how bags were made and styles of bags and have concluded there is no "right" style or correct way to make them. However you make it, as long as you are happy with it,go with it! Bags with the back and flap as one piece,if made with soft and relitively thin leather will have no issues with the flap staying down
I would agree if one is not working with a specific place and time in mind and desires to work within a very wide time range and incorporating the time frame from which most all surviving pouches come out of.

Offline T.C.Albert

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Re: Hunting bag question
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2011, 09:30:59 PM »
What James said...

To elaborate just a bit with my own two cents, with old bags, from what I have seen, it seems there is a definite group of bags that appear to be made by professionally trained  leather workers (saddlers, harness makers, perhaps even cordwainers etc...)...these bags tend to exhibit a degree of uniformity in construction techniques and materials if not actual shape or pattern...and they seem to span the long rifle era...

then there is a second group, they are the "cobbled" examples...these  generally seem to be made by someone who knew what they were doing as far as leather work went, but who were improvising as they went with non traditional techniques or quirky individualized methods, perhaps through necissity (lac of tools and materials etc) and very often were using recycled materials, the true sign of a "cobbler"...but in all they were trying to keep to established forms and styles as best they could.


then there is a class of the total "one offs", and they seem to made by some one pretty inexperienced in leather working that just needed or wanted to make a pouch and did so...how ever he could with what ever he had...these show the greatest variety of construction style, and are truly individualistic...some of these are really neat, and some could even be called artistic...however most are just plain utilitarian examples.

So...we have old bags made by professional workers, they use trained techniques, proper tools, and are often using established patterns, and high grade materials. Thats what youd expect from a pro...he has the tools, the training, the experience and the materials at hand to make a living at his trade...

And old bags made by itinerant  workman, or "jacks of all trades" that cobbled what they could as best they could...note, often bags made by professional makers exhibit repairs done by this group of workers...and I expect this group included farmers and workers skilled in other various trades...

And finally, we have old bags made by the artistic individualistic anything goes makers....

In general, it seems that examples of old pouch making will tend to fall into one of these catagories, and now most examples of contemporary pouch making do too...and curiously, perhaps for many of the same reasons? ie...training, availability of tools and materials, and necissity...?

So to come full circle, What James said...
TC  

 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 09:40:07 PM by T.C.Albert »
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Offline James Rogers

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Re: Hunting bag question
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2011, 10:11:06 PM »


So to come full circle, What James said...
TC  

 

But with better information and without such a long run-on sentence.
I had typed that the other day from my new cell phone thingy
I just tried to read my post a minute ago and was barely able to follow it. ;D

PS
TC, what a great article on Jerry Scales in MB!!
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 10:15:57 PM by James Rogers »

Offline Frank Barker

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Re: Hunting bag question
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2011, 11:06:27 PM »
Tim....I totally agree with you but if I may, I hope to expound on what you and James said. You and I have a very similar back ground when it comes to our first love of a muzzleloading rifle gun. I started shooting them when I was 13 years old. I had a Jr. High school math teacher who introduced me to this fraternity at that very early age. I made my first hunting pouch, before I could even afford a gun. I made it out of an old ground hog hide that I shot with a 22, skinned and dried it out. I had seen a couple of pouches so I knew about what size to make it, about how long the strap should be and that it was suppose to have a flap. The flap was made out of what ever I had left over from the hide. I really didn't care what shape it was, only that it had one. Since that time, I have made quite a few pouches and the ones I make today, in no way resemble that very first one. When I made that first bag, I was totally pleased and wore it proudly, you might say it was a Central Appalachian style as that is where I lived when it was made. After I got older and a little wiser I realized that there in deed was different styles of hunting pouches, styles that were indicative of various locations. And it is quite obvious that there were different levels of skilled craftsmanship. These levels run from that kid who is making his first pouch to that highly skilled craftsman such as you.
I have had many tutors along the way and my skill level has advanced somewhat. I wish I could come up with a rifle pouch that would fit everyone's need, one that appealed to everyone who owns a muzzleloading gun. As we know that is impossible as everyone is an individual and their likes and dislikes vary greatly. Maybe someday Frank will spot a hunting bag that he just can't resist, one that is totally different from the one he has now but until that time, he likes the one he has.....Regards  Frank Barker  




  
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 01:23:02 AM by Frank Barker »

Offline T.C.Albert

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Re: Hunting bag question
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2011, 11:39:02 PM »
Thanks James...(Jerry is a great Guy...) and thanks to you as well Frank...that ground hog hide bag sounds so neat....

I agree with you 100%...so many factors play into bag making...regionality, the popular styles of a particular era, perhaps even the ethnic backgrounds of the users and makers...for example, was the McGilvery (sp?) layered fringe pouch an Irish thing while the inlaid heart type bags are strictly Pennsylvania Dutch etc...I mean could a guy get his butt kicked, or at least catch alot of teasing and grief for sporting the wrong style in the wrong crowd etc? I can imagine it...

And after necessity and survivial was not a a primary concern and frontier life became more pastoral, was a flashy pouch painstakingly and individually made to impress the "boys" at the next cross roads shooting match...while the well to do landed "older boys" simply bought the best pouch that their community craftsman had to offer with the same thought in mind? And both pouches then worn by the men respectivly to the same exact match etc...? I can easily imagine it as well,,,

And what about the places where life remained hard scrabble tough right up till now ...styles there would always include home spun type pouches...

I wonder these things and more about bags all the time...of all the longrifle artifacts...discovering even the barest definitive information about old pouches as a whole really is a challenge...sorry to ramble here...
TC
« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 11:48:40 PM by T.C.Albert »
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Offline Frank Barker

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Re: Hunting bag question
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2011, 01:30:31 AM »
Tim.....Your rambling is well taken and as always considered to be accurate in every aspect.  Great food for thought and always educational.     Frank Barker  
« Last Edit: January 25, 2011, 01:41:09 AM by Frank Barker »

Offline David G

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Re: Hunting bag question
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2023, 01:47:47 AM »
Dang…came across this thread while searching for info on ground hog hide pouches as I’m currently attempting to tan one to turn into a pouch. The reason I bumped it was for the educational info contained within and the chance for any aspiring leather worker to  see it. I don’t think this site does “sticky’s” but it’s good stuff nonetheless.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2023, 03:33:48 AM by David G »