Author Topic: Target Shooters use of 7fg  (Read 5987 times)

Offline Larry Pletcher

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Target Shooters use of 7fg
« on: January 26, 2011, 07:04:10 PM »
Target shooters usually try to fine the fastest igniting priming powder.  Last year a shooter gave me a sample of 7fg to time.  He told me that pistol shooters at Friendship use it mixed with 4fg to good effect.  Yesterday I finally got around to do it.  We had finished timing locks with Null b so we had a good baseline to use for comparison.

We used Sam Everly's ball bearing lock.  we alternated priming between a 50-50 mix of Null B and 7fg and straight 7fg.  Below are the trials:

NullB/7fg-----------------------------7fg

1----.0498 ---------------2------.0528
3----.0466 ---------------4------.0604
5----.0526 ---------------6------.0948
7----.0443 ---------------8------.0508
9----.0425 --------------10------.0580
11---.0564 -------------12------.0594
13---.0566 -------------14------.0620
15---.0704 -------------16------.0798
17---.0480 -------------18------.0527
19---.0536 -------------20------.0390
-------------------------------------------------------
Avg--.05208-------------------.06097

Earlier this lock ran 20 trials averaging .0420 using Swiss Null B.  I am led to conclude that Swiss Null B is the fastest priming powder we have regardless of grain size.  The two averages above rank on either side of 3fg on a number line of powder times with the mix being  faster than 3fg and 7fg straight slower than 3fg.

Regards,
Pletch
« Last Edit: January 26, 2011, 07:07:18 PM by Larry Pletcher »
Regards,
Pletch
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Offline Scout

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Re: Target Shooters use of 7fg
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2011, 12:13:49 AM »
Is this home made with a mortar/pestel? I have never seen it where I buy powder.
She ain't Purdy but she shoots real good !

Offline BrentD

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Re: Target Shooters use of 7fg
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2011, 02:16:47 AM »
FWIW Larry, those numbers have a 0.13 probability (13% chance) of being from not different distributions.

Offline Larry Pletcher

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Re: Target Shooters use of 7fg
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2011, 04:07:38 AM »
Ole Scout,
I think the 7fg is fireworks powder that came from China. Not sure tho.

Brent ,
I realize that the difference in these two columns are close.  What I'd really like to see compared is that the same lock averaged .0420 for 20 tries earlier in the day.  To me the importance of this is that the the pistols shooters are mixing these powders to get the fastest possible ignition.  And, the way to do that is simply to use Null B straight.

One interesting thing is that was we worked earlier in the day with Null B in this lock, we'd see a time like .0450 and begin thinking about knapping.  When we saw a .0450 with the 7fg, we were thinking, "all is well."

Regards,
Pletch
Regards,
Pletch
blackpowdermag@gmail.com

He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what can never be taken away.

Kayla Mueller - I didn't come here of my own accord, and I can't leave that way.  Whoever brought me here, will have to take me home.

Offline Frizzen

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Re: Target Shooters use of 7fg
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2011, 04:51:11 AM »
Thanks Larry, Tell you what I'm going to do, Get me some Null B in June at Friendship
The Pistol Shooter

Daryl

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Re: Target Shooters use of 7fg
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2011, 05:37:59 AM »
Larry - if 3F is in the middle of those two tests, where's GOEX 4F in relationship to lower one, the NullB/7F mix - I IRRC it was well under .05 average?

Offline BrentD

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Re: Target Shooters use of 7fg
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2011, 06:14:56 AM »
Larry,
I am assuming that 7f and Null B are different granulations of more or less, the same thing.  If so, mixed granulations will pack more densely that single granulation of either the larger or smaller sizes.  Perhaps denser piles of powder slow the propagation of the burn.

I use 4f Goex, because I bought a pound of it for that express purpose - the deer die just fine, but I doubt the stuff is very fast.
 

Daryl

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Re: Target Shooters use of 7fg
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2011, 06:32:34 AM »
4F is faster than 3F - Larry's test show that. In some locks, there is a big difference - not so much in othes.

Offline Larry Pletcher

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Re: Target Shooters use of 7fg
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2011, 07:21:31 AM »
Here is a list in order from testing in 2005 for MB article:

0.03931   null B  Recent Null B tests with different locks--.0420, .0374, .0420
0.04127   Swiss 4fg
0.04739   late Goex 4fg (after Goex moved)
0.0486    early Goex 4fg
0.05208   7fg/Null B mix
0.05951   Goex 3fg
0.06097   7fg
0.06978   Goex 2fg
0.0824  (Cannon grade - just for fun) :)

The two trials containing 7fg are here in bold face.  Keep in mind that non-bold faced averages are all one lock in 2005.  the recent Null B averages are 3 different locks.  The 7fg averages are from the Siler ball bearing lock that scored .0420 with null B.

I'm afraid that combining averages from different tests will be pretty sloppy.  I hope it makes sense.

Regards,
Pletch
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 07:04:02 PM by Larry Pletcher »
Regards,
Pletch
blackpowdermag@gmail.com

He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what can never be taken away.

Kayla Mueller - I didn't come here of my own accord, and I can't leave that way.  Whoever brought me here, will have to take me home.

Offline B. Hey

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Re: Target Shooters use of 7fg
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2011, 08:25:32 AM »
Thanks for the info, Pletch! Very informative. Take care .. Bill

Daryl

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Re: Target Shooters use of 7fg
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2011, 06:09:08 PM »
That's what I needed, tks Pletch.

Offline Larry Pletcher

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Re: Target Shooters use of 7fg
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2011, 07:07:22 PM »
I thought that last list I did was pretty sloppy.  I made a chart that does a better job. See if this makes more sense:



The jpg version is still fuzzy. 
Regards,
Pletch
Regards,
Pletch
blackpowdermag@gmail.com

He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what can never be taken away.

Kayla Mueller - I didn't come here of my own accord, and I can't leave that way.  Whoever brought me here, will have to take me home.

Offline Mad Monk

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Re: Target Shooters use of 7fg
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2011, 05:41:59 PM »
Larry,
I am assuming that 7f and Null B are different granulations of more or less, the same thing.  If so, mixed granulations will pack more densely that single granulation of either the larger or smaller sizes.  Perhaps denser piles of powder slow the propagation of the burn.

I use 4f Goex, because I bought a pound of it for that express purpose - the deer die just fine, but I doubt the stuff is very fast.
 

With black powder the more surface area per unit of mass the faster the mass burns.

When you go from 1F down the burning ignition speed through a mass of powder increases.  Until you go from 4F to 5F.  The the ignition speed slows.  The little air spaces between the grains of powder play a role in flame spreading rates through the mass of powder.  But down around 5F the spaces become too small to allow flame spreading through the mass.


Dealing with Swiss Nul B.
The Swiss made black powder has a chemical rate of burn that is a good deal faster then other powders.  In other words the rate at which individual grains burn from the surface to the core is faster with the Swiss powder than with any other brand.  The Swiss powder having a sporting powder burn rate whereas GOEX and the others has a rifle powder burn rate.

In the flintlock pan the Swiss Nul B gives a more intense heat.  Both in gas temperatures and how fast the heat is being produced by the burning powder.  The NUl B is more efficient/effective because of its particular grain sizing and its faster chemical rate of burn.

In addition.  The Swiss powder is produced with a high-purity potassium nitrate which makes it little effected by moisture in the air until the R.H. goes over 90%.  When powder in a flintlock pan begins to pick up moisture from the air there will be a slowing of the flame spreading through the mass of powder.

E. Ogre