Black powder

[burnsranch]

Anyone know of a online retailer that sells small lots of real Black powder, preferably GOEX?
Last time I looked locally, in the Rapid City area, no one carried black powder.
Thanks
Russ

[Roger Fisher]

Suggest: Graf's Inc (web site) they'll sell small lots or a case at a decent price; but you pay haz mat so the more you buy the more you'll save

They are in the midwest also.

[smylee grouch]

Call Doc. Carlson in Crofton, Neb. not too far from you. Upper Missouri Trading Post

[Blacksmoke]

Russ:  My son in law handles it - he is in Custer SD - near me.  He has a re-enactor's supply business. You might give him a call: 605-673-2952 evenings and weekends only.  His name is Richard Bickel.

[SCLoyalist]

powderinc.com will sell you a 5 lb lot for about $22 a can, including hazmat&shipping.   

Because the hazmat fee is going to be the same whether you buy 5 lbs or 25 lbs, you'd be better off buying the stuff in larger quantities through a club or with a friend and splitting the powder and the cost up.  (You don't want to buy a bunch of powder with a thought of reselling it later, unless you have the right Fed Explosives license.)

[burnsranch]

I ordered some from grafs. As long as my barn does not blow up, I should be set for a while.

Thanks
Russ

[Dphariss]

Anyone know of a online retailer that sells small lots of real Black powder, preferably GOEX?
Last time I looked locally, in the Rapid City area, no one carried black powder.
Thanks
Russ

Small lots are going to be pricey the haz-mat is the same for 1 pound or 50, $25. It will add 5 dollars a pound in 5 pound lots.
If you can get a few shooters together and order 25 its a better deal.

Dan

[bob in the woods]

Ref the " as long as my barn doesn't blow up" comment- Is it just me, or am I mistaken in that IMO people in general perceive BP to be far more dangerous than it is?   It is stable. It does not off gas. It will not "blow up" if confined in the original containers..it will burn .  To my way of thinking, the 5 gal gas can in my shed for my ATV is way more dangerous.

[William Worth]

My thinking exactly.

Propane or gasoline appears to me to be much more of a hazard than any amount of BP.

I would much rather clean up a BP spill then say, a gasoline spill.  I can use a broom and dust pan to clean up BP.  

Even more ironic, go to a Lowes or Home Depot and there are cans of stuff like acetone sitting on the shelf.  Not so with BP.  The BP is "more dangerous" you know.

[valongrifles]

Speaking of BP and its "danger". In the Muzzle Blasts from early 40's , each month there was a reminder to shooters to get their permit that allowed them to purchase black powder in any quantity. (apparently it was available from county clerk for the asking). A copy of the permit was required to be received by the party shipping and the receiving party and transport company. I guess it was the early Home Security guys looking out for us. But, yeah, look at all the stuff that is more dangerous available at any hardware store, large and small.

[Roger Fisher]

Ref the " as long as my barn doesn't blow up" comment- Is it just me, or am I mistaken in that IMO people in general perceive BP to be far more dangerous than it is?   It is stable. It does not off gas. It will not "blow up" if confined in the original containers..it will burn .  To my way of thinking, the 5 gal gas can in my shed for my ATV is way more dangerous.

Your on the mark Bob!

[Leatherbelly]

Yep, and you'll burn 25lbs. a year no problem!

[burnsranch]

I do know this for a fact, John Wayne did not light black powder with his cigar.

I am not worried about the black powder blowing the barn up, once in a while.....

[Paddlefoot]

If might be safer in some ways but you do always have to consider static electricity too. I could see a problem sweeping up BP with a synthetic broom or something like that. More a fire thing than a big boom but it's not good to get too complascent. On the list of dangerous things...Coleman stoves.

[Dphariss]

If might be safer in some ways but you do always have to consider static electricity too. I could see a problem sweeping up BP with a synthetic broom or something like that. More a fire thing than a big boom but it's not good to get too complascent. On the list of dangerous things...Coleman stoves.

Static will not ignite BP.
This has been tested.
http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/sparks/sparks.html
Dan

[Daryl]

Graphic test and well done.

[Blacksmoke]

HEAT is the criteria for igniting black powder - 600 degrees if I remember correctly!   That's why you
can pour black powder on a "glowing" ember and it will not ignite until you add a little more oxygen to the ember to make it glow at a higher temp (600 degrees!) - then: POOF there it goes!  This is precisely why the "vent" is covered when reloading a cannon - to prevent a glowing ember from being fanned by the new charge being pushed down the barrel where a glowing ember is more likely to be found, than a rifle barrel where there is much less chance because of it's size.  Something to ponder,         
  Hugh Toenjes

[TPH]

Speaking of BP and its "danger". In the Muzzle Blasts from early 40's , each month there was a reminder to shooters to get their permit that allowed them to purchase black powder in any quantity. (apparently it was available from county clerk for the asking). A copy of the permit was required to be received by the party shipping and the receiving party and transport company. I guess it was the early Home Security guys looking out for us. But, yeah, look at all the stuff that is more dangerous available at any hardware store, large and small.

Hmmmm, that's interesting. When my Dad bought our first pound of DuPont black powder in 1958 or '59, he got it at Downer's Hardware store in Covington for the "outrageously high" price of $1.25. No permit there or at Howard Sites' gun shop. Mr. Sites was out of powder at the time (he probably sold it to Wallace Gussler )or Dad would have purchased it there.

[bob in the woods]

One day a few years ago, I was at our range when someone put up a can of 2F Goex at 100 yds and then shot in the hope of causing an explosion !  I was surprised. Know what happened?    Nothing!

[smylee grouch]

Bob, I know of a guy that did that with a 30-06 tracer and got a real nice flash but not an ,what I would call an explosion.  Gary

[Daryl]

A fellow who worked at the sporting good store in Terrace, had a number of paper 'bags' of ICI 1F- the stuff that was over 1/8" in diameter, most of it smooth and oblong kernals of powder, not angular in any sense of the word. We called it cannon powder. As no one would buy it, he decided to 'blow' them up.

The gist of this story, is that he set them on the 100 yard target stand and 'blew' them up, one shot at a time with a 7mm Rem mag. - 150gr. It appears a 150gr. bullet at over 3,000fps can ignite them.  Each bag burst open into a huge white cloud of smoke - no exploasion, per se`- just Whoof!

[Mad Monk]

A fellow who worked at the sporting good store in Terrace, had a number of paper 'bags' of ICI 1F- the stuff that was over 1/8" in diameter, most of it smooth and oblong kernals of powder, not angular in any sense of the word. We called it cannon powder. As no one would buy it, he decided to 'blow' them up.

The gist of this story, is that he set them on the 100 yard target stand and 'blew' them up, one shot at a time with a 7mm Rem mag. - 150gr. It appears a 150gr. bullet at over 3,000fps can ignite them.  Each bag burst open into a huge white cloud of smoke - no exploasion, per se`- just Whoof!

The way it was explained to me was that as a bullet passes through the air there will be frictional heating of the bullet.  Much like high speed aircraft.  So the surface temperature of the bullet will play a part in ignition or no ignition.

E. Ogre

[Jerry V Lape]

Monk, could not a bullet with enough velocity cause detonation of the particles in direct contact much like hitting a few grains with a hammer? 

[Candle Snuffer]

Black powder is one of the most safest powders on the market - yet it seems to be the most regulated (though all powder is regulated)...

Hey, you guys in the Rapid City, Custer, South Dakota area, as well as Northwest Nebraska (me) Crawford, Chadron, Harrison,,, how come we're not getting together to shoot?

Any of you make it to Fur Trade Days in Chadron over the weekend after the 4th of July?

[Mad Monk]

Monk, could not a bullet with enough velocity cause detonation of the particles in direct contact much like hitting a few grains with a hammer? 

Some time you might want to try a few grains of black powder on an anvil and strike it hard with a hammer.  So far no go.

Detonation is a term you really cannot use in relation to black powder.  It is physically incapable of true detonation.

To get an "impact shock" ignition of black powder you must have it in RIGID confinement.  As in the industry "fall-hammer" test.  As explosives go it is described as being relatively insensitive to impact shock ignition.  Same goes for frictional impact shock ignition.

A can or plastic bottle does not offer the degree of rigid confinement necessary to gain impact shock ignition.

In the industry fall hammer test smokeless powder are more sensitive than black powder.

E. Ogre