barrel weight

[ottawa]

what is the lightest barrel weight Ive seen A,B,C and have no idee what that really means???
I saw a real nice .45cl rifle at a ride thrue history a couple weeks ago and it was a beaut but the barrel wasn't that thick or heavy and my wife was able to hold it to take aim so the dilemma is cut a rifle down in length to fit her to shoot or find a light barrel
thank for the in put
Ben

[Gene Carrell]

A,B, or C are actually designations of a barrel profile (shape) with A being the smallest and C the largest. Occasionally you may find one smaller than an A profile in no greater than 32cal. Expect to find 32 to 40  caliber in A profile bbls; 40-50 cal  in B and  50-58 in C. I've heard of D profile for large calibers on  jaguers.
You will fing your 45cal in a 13/16" across  the flats straight octagon  also. Check TOW's catalog (on line) for a full set of dimensions and specs for each barrel profile.

[sz]

In the industry today, "A" is the lightest contour and "D" is the heaviest.
However, in pounds and ounces, you need to consider the caliber too.
You see, if you were to weigh a "C" in 54 caliber, it's probably going to weigh less than a "B" in 32 caliber.
It's all a matter of how much steel you have in the finished barrel.  (outside contour, length and caliber)  The bigger the bore, the bigger the "shaft of air" is in the barrel.
Air doesn't weigh much.........

[Dennis Glazener]

Ive seen A,B,C and have no idee what that really means???

If you use Internet Explorer (does not work with Mozilla Foxfire)  you can look under "Barrels", "Specifications" at the Rice Barrels website : http://www.ricebarrels.com/ and they have diagrams of their barrel dimensions.
Dennis

[bob in the woods]

If you want to get a really light barrel, I've seen 13/16th inch oct. barrels in  .50 cal.  I can't recall who was selling them, but they made up into a light weight flint rifle. I was thinking about using two for a swivel rifle

[Gene Carrell]

I made a Vincent rifle using a 13/16" Green Mountain bbl in 50cal about 15yrs ago. I would not recommend using one that light for other than light target loads. At that, the barrel was a bit light for steady holding.

[don getz]

You might follow Dennis' suggestion and take a look at the Rice drawings.........they were copied directly from our catalog
and we were the ones to design them originally.   Although the A weight is usually only done in calibres up to 40, we have done some in 45.    I have also found that a B weight in 50 is a rather light barrel, especially in the 38" version.
As for that 13/16" straight barrel in 50 cal., I didn't know anyone else was making them.   When we first made them,
everyone screamed that they were too light, and not safe to shoot.  What the heck, we proofed them with 300 grains of
FFF, double balled, without harming the barrel, gee whiz, what do you want.    Ed Dillon just picked up 6 of them the other day from John.   The one precaution you have to take when using a barrel of this size is the depth of your dovetails,
you must use a little discretion here, and it also a little too thin to use a touchhole liner.   As for me, the barrel is too light
for any serious shooting...........Don

[Birddog6]

As for that 13/16" straight barrel in 50 cal., I didn't know anyone else was making them.   When we first made them, everyone screamed that they were too light, and not safe to shoot.  What the heck, we proofed them with 300 grains of FFF, double balled, without harming the barrel, gee whiz, what do you want.    Ed Dillon just picked up 6 of them the other day from John.   The one precaution you have to take when using a barrel of this size is the depth of your dovetails,you must use a little discretion here, and it also a little too thin to use a touchhole liner.   
As for me, the barrel is too light for any serious shooting...........Don


Don,  Are you saying these barrels should be used with a drilled vent or used with a patent breech or what ?

[keweenaw]

The feel of a gun with a swamped barrel is entirely different from that of a gun with a straight barrel.  Your wife would probably find shooting a swamped  B weight, 42 inch barreled rifle pleasant while she would find a 42" x  7/8" straight barrel unshootably muzzle heavy. 

Tom

[HistoricalArmsMaker]

I build a lot of rifles for women and kids from scratch. But consider the phenomena called "whip" when you get a thin walled barrel. I used to believe that this was caused by the thin barrel being pinned tight thru the lugs and it not being able to move fore and aft when it heats. But that thought failed after building some halfstocks with 13/16 x 45's that would never hold a group. I think that The best and most common combination will be a swamped barrel that puts the weight back against the body. A straight barrel and a swamped barrel of same caliber and length won't weigh the same, but I'll take the swamped everytime because of the distribution of balance. Women seem to always say they want a shorter barrel. The typical build for those not over 5-7 is a 31" to a 38" length. I'm doing one right now for a lady who is 5-0 and she worked out with a 31" Rice .40 cal B weight. Thats a 1" breech and the balance for her turned out perfect. She loves it!
I am 5-9 and shoot a 40" long Rayl .38 caliber in a 1" breech. Mine was custom ordered copying an original profile and is quite heavy. Guns weighs 8.2 pounds. Most women seem to prefer 7.75 or less. Hard to get there.
By the way, "A" weight is 15/16 breech, "B" weight is 1" breech, "C" weight is 1-1/16" breech. The variances will be in the "waist" dimension and its location. The muzzles are generally same among the manufacturers. "B"s are usual 13/16 muzzles and "C"s are 7/8 muzzles. "A"s are all over the map.
Susie

[don getz]

Birddog......on a barrel like the 13/16" straight in 50 cal. the barrel wall is rather thin and I would just drill a hole for a
touch hole.......no need to try to find a patent breech..that would be a waste of money, unless of course if you wanted to
do it as a percussion gun, they you would have to find a patent breech....not enough barrel wall for a drum.....Don

[Dphariss]

If you want to get a really light barrel, I've seen 13/16th inch oct. barrels in  .50 cal.  I can't recall who was selling them, but they made up into a light weight flint rifle. I was thinking about using two for a swivel rifle

I would have them made bigger at the breech 7/8" maybe then taper to thin at the muzzle. For a 50 you could go to .725 at the muzzle (the "B" Swamp is smaller than this at the waist). A barrel of this dimension will average .8" and weigh what a barrel of that dimension would and still have a bigger breech for plug threads etc. It will also be lighter at the muzzle than a .8" straight barrel.

Dan

[northmn]

In comment to what Susanne W. B. stated.  I built a 32 inch 13/16 45 cal for my wife many years ago.  She took home a lot of trophies with that rifle and  opened me up to a certain amount of ribbing as to being outshot by my wife.  To fix the situation as the rifle was a percussion with a ugly precarved stock I sold it and built her a 45 with a 7/8 inch barrel at 32 inches in flintlock.  She shot it just as well and I still got ribbed.  It helps if the rifles fit the person in both hold and recoil.  Most of the women she competed against were shooting rifles like the TC Seneca which were too long a pull.  A rather tall man bought the percussion (no way it could have fit him well) and loved it and won a few prizes with it in the "primitive" matches.  Shorter barrels do not have the whip of longer ones and can be lighter.  When I built a rifle with a 1" to 7/8" tapered barrel, I vowed I would not build another straight barrel as the holding characteristics, IE balance was very evident.  Some even used to lead the butts of 13/16 45's.  Thin barrels are nice to carry and may work for a walking rifle, but for my deer hunting where I walk to a stand I would rather have a heavier rifle that I can shoot.

DP

[don getz]

Personally, I like a heavier gun.   I think anyone would shoot better with one, however, it must be manageable.  I had
Dave Dodds build me a nice Berks county rifle many years ago.   I made a Golden Age "D" weight barrel, in 54 cal., but
shortened it up to 39", holds well, shoots well, and is still a nice gun to carry..........Don

[HistoricalArmsMaker]

Don, did you ever have the problem with the whip in the .45 x 13/16 barrels or hear complaints about them?
Susie

[northmn]

In an offhand gun, I have seen some pretty fantastic shooting with a 13/16 .45.  Some of the "whip" has to do with heavy loads.  The 45 starts "maxing out" if you will at about 60-65 grains of 3f and heavier barrels permit a heavier charge.  Some say the same thing about the 7/8 50, that you need to keep the loads down a bit or they get whippy.  Tapered and swamped barrels may help as I use a pretty stiff charge in my tapered 54.  One of the nicest holding rifles I had was a 13/16 45.  Unfortunately it had a Douglas barrel with a mismarked runout.  You were supposed to put the Douglas name on the bottom or top.  I did.  It still shot to one side at close range and the opposite at 100 yards.  It still would have done OK for deer hunting.  Got rid of it because someone wanted to buy it and thought they could cure the runnout issue.  Rifles made with shorter barrels for youth and women that may need a lighter gun will not have as much whip and are not likely to be loaded as heavy.  My wife never shot more than 60 grains in her 45's.  She shot them very well.  Heavy guns are relative.  Whats heavy for me may be right for some and  whats lighter may be heavy for others.  As an example I do not like a 1" 50 to be longer than about 32"

DP

[HistoricalArmsMaker]

I have a half stock with a GM 13/16 x 45 x 36" in it and regardless of all the different variations could never bring it in. I litterally gave up on it when I sent it out to three other superb shooters and they couldn't find a load either. 38 years of shooting blackpowder and I couldn't figure it out until someone mentioned "whipping". (I'm stubborn). But this barrel simply would not shoot in the same place twice regardless of lapping and all kinds of builders tricks.
Just wondered. My public view is that I don't care who you are or how much you know, we all can still learn more stuff, and I thought maybe there was more on this subject I could learn!
Susie

[northmn]

I am assuming you are not talking about competing in benchrest but more or less normal expected accuracy as in about 1" at 50 yards or a little better.  If that is the case then darned if I know. 

DP

[HistoricalArmsMaker]

Yup. I can do benchrest, but its not my thing. I'm a traditionalist so I admire and enjoy the challenge to the skill level of shooting flint only offhand. That .45 was a percussion way back prior to my evolving into a flint shooter. Every once in a while I check that halfstock out to see if I can see something I might have done wrong in its build. But in all truth I can't find a mechanical malady that would cause or be a problem that would induce its inability to pattern. A true mystery. Someday I'll find it. I'm hesitant to rebarrel it because its my very first rifle built from scratch! Its engraved as number one! (Talk about a curse! Hah!)
Susie

[northmn]

Mechanical maladies ususally show a pattern as you likely know.  As an example barrel heating tends to cause walking in one direction.  Funny thing is that I have seen surprising accuracy out of some pretty bad barrels.  My first few  rifles were so darned ugly I either restocked them for parts or sold them.  They were nothing like some of the firsts I have seen on this thread.   Would be kind of nice to have one of them to pull out of a dark closet and look at once in while to remind me that there has been improvement.  My last couple when I went through a little burnout were not as nice either.

DP