Harbor Freight benchtop lathes

[Rich Jakowski]

I’ve been looking at the Harbor Freight website and tempted to purchase one of those small benchtop lathes to aid in the assembly of lock casting part sets. I know there are a lot of skilled machinists on this forum who may look at this stuff as useless toys, but the prices are very affordable and seem ideally suited for fitting and assembling flintlock parts. I’d be interested in hearing if anyone in our group has had experience with these small machines. I’m especially wondering about the 7” X 10” benchtop lathe (93212—1VGA) and the mini multipurpose machine (39743-9VGA).   

[Rich Jakowski]

BTW: I've been posting on the old formum for several months and noticed I'm comming on board as a new member on this one.

Will the member info from the old board get transfered to this one or do we have start over from scratch which includes re-listing our profile for this new site?

 

[lew wetzel]

rich,thier prices are agreeable but not sure the quality is all that.and you have to think about tooling for those little lathes.they do have a lathe/mill combo for around $800.00 that i was looking at.i think they would come in handy for little projects but who is to say they are dependable and how they will hold tolerances????there are some other manufactures who specialize in small lathes and the quality is probably better...just a thought.

[Acer Saccharum]

It really helps to go look at the tools in person.

Unfortunately, I don't have any experience the the Harbor Freight tools. I have seen JET tools and some Grizzly, and they are good working machines.

Check how the fit of the parts are by running the carriage back and forth, how do the crank handles feel, tailstock  spindle fit in the tailstock, how things lock and unlock. Listen to the gears as it runs.

I have an Enco vertical mill, and it serves me well. Where it disappoints me is in little things, like the knobs wobble in their tapped holes, and they unscrew all by themselves. So I lock-tite some of these things in place, and I'm good to go. The return spring for the spindle broke, and the machine is obsolete, the parts are no longer available.

So, make sure your dealer carries spare parts, and is committed to supporting your machine for years ahead.

Weight is your friend in a lathe or mill. The heavier the machine, the better. Ususally a light machine will chatter on heavy cuts, you get a poor finish and accuracy suffers.

Get the best machine you can afford. It will pay for itself very quickly in saved time and lack of frustration, plus good quality work capability. If you cheap out, you will pay in frustration every time you turn the switch on.

Tom

[Ken G]

Rich,
Dennis is working on bringing the number of post over for folks that want that.  Moving post numbers have to be done one member at a time and will require some time to get every changes.  If you want that, send Dennis a PM and he will put you on the list. 
You will have to re-enter all your profile information.  It will not automaticly move over.

[Don Tripp]

I've been looking at those little lathes from Harbor Freight too. The price is right. My current lathe is a craftsman drill clamped in a vise so this one from harbor freight couldn't be any worse. I found an interesting website dedicated to small lathes. http://www.mini-lathe.com/ also  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mini-mill

[Metalshaper]

Depending on the machine..

the same version is usually available at Jet,Grizzly, Cummings and other various vendors. I have a Cummings mini mill, its the same Sieg X2 carried by all of the others. usually the paint and sometimes the control box is the only identifying difference. That and the spindles< Mines and R8 taper,,others are MT3 >

 I believe the jet models are 'tuned' at the factory, to be a lil' smoother at the gibs and ways? understand these are not the swankiest tools you'll ever purchase. they each come with a distinct set of problems to deal with. you'll want to spend some time making all the adjustments, and general fiddling with them,, before you try to do something for real.. once adjusted, if you work within its limits,, they are decent machines..

< I do my lathe work on an on 6 X 12 Craftsman 109!  Made about 1960! That one takes a bit of tweeking,, to keep in trim  )

Make sure you also have some extra $$ for tooling and such.. Sucks to have a machine cleaned up ( to remove all the shipping goo )  set up and leveled on the bench..and then realize you needed some specific tool holder or the like.  I shanked the intermediate drive gear on my mill ( unfortunate fly cutting incident ,,that was MY fault )  and had to wait for a replacement..

look in the various Yahoo groups,, and you'll find others using the HF 7X 10 or Mini Mills

Hope this helps??

[billd]

I have a Grizzly bench lathe. It works OK but the threading leaves a lot to be desired. The problem I have is I use South Bends, Martins and Bridgeports all day at work and when I come home and fire up the Grizzly it seems like a toy.

The mill I have is a bench model also, no adjustable knee. The quill adjustment for depth is not too accurate and when you tighten the clamp on the quill it kicks back a little and tips the cutter. In fact I don't even use it anymore for this reason, just stay after work and do it there.

It's like comparing a Lexus and a Kia. Both get you where you going but one's a lot more comfortable than the other.

If you have the room, look for a used tool room lathe. These on a table take about a 5' x 3' space. I've seen them go for under a $1000. A lot of used machine dealers are selling on Ebay. Another place is your school district. If they have a tech program, many times they upgrade the equipment and sell off the old stuff. A friend of mine got a floor model mill for $125. a few years ago.

When buying used just make sure they are not 3 phase motors or your looking at more money to get them converted. If you have a converter, the 3 phase are usually much cheaper because everyone else is looking for the single phase.

Hope this helps,
Bill

[Steve-In]

93212—1VGA This lathe looks OK.  Light cuts should not be a problem.  I would want to know if you can get soft jaws for the chuck.  Soft jaws allow you to bore them to common used sizes and get good TIR (lack of wobble).  For tumbler work where you turn 1 end and flip it around and turn the other this is very important.  The spindle hole of 5/8 is small, but it would be fine for screws.  Check the threads it will cut.  I assume it will do most of the common pitches.  You can cut threads oversize and finish them with a good die.  Get HSS tools as you can grind them on a bench grinder.  Get a couple of dial indicators as I would not trust the machine dials.  The lathe/mill looks like a waste of money.  Not much capacity with the mill and it looks like it would be in the way when turning.
Like billd says I program and run a MAKINO A61 with glass scales.  It is hard for me to run on this kind of equipment.
Have fun, Steve

[Rich Jakowski]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for the quick response and all the helpful info. I especially liked Tom's comment about seeing the tool in person before buying. Fortunately there's a HF store 30 mi from me so I may go and do this tomorrow.

Buying a full sized metal lathe is out of the question even if it turned out to be a steal. I just don't see myself using it for anything other than small stuff like lock parts and screws. I made up a bunch of screws for my 1803 HF lock a few weeks ago on a wood lathe fitted with #2MT 1/2 inch drill chuck (not much better than a Craftsman hand drill clamped in a vise). A mini-metal lathe should be able to do better than that.

Steve - I agree the HF lathe/milling combo tool is a waist of money. I think one is pushing the envelope with ~$400 mini-lathe. More features in this price range just means a multipurpose tool that does nothing very well. 

[FG1]

Heres a little Craftsman I saw on Practical Machinest :
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=159554

[Rich Jakowski]

Sheeeesh.... FG1!

That's a tempting tidbit that looks like it got away.

Worcester is only a 30 minute drive from me, but it already looks as though several members of that forum beat me to it. I'm not on their list so can't reply anyway.

Thanks for thinking of me though.

[FG1]

Sign up real quick then drive real fast !!!!!! lol lol !!!

You see those little benchtop jobs on ebay now and again . Also Little machine shop .com has some small lathes. Some dont have micrometer adjusting cross slide but wouldnt be hard to put a dial indicator on it and read off it .
I picked up a 12x36 gap bed for $900 here locally !

[44-henry]

I am a professor at the University of North Dakota and have been doing research on the mini lathes (7x12 Cummins) for the last couple years for my dissertation. My research has been on whether these lathes offer educational institutions a reasonable alternative to full size lathe for instructional purposes. I do have the advantage of having these lathes in our University lab and being able to compare them to Grizzly 9x20's and also larger American lathes like the Clausing.

If you look on the web you will find numerous (literally hundreds) of sites dealing with the mini lathes and ways of improving there performance. There are also some very good instructional videos available for these lathes. Littlemachineshop.com offers replacement parts and accessories and also some other good items all geared towards these lathes. The lathes sold by Harborfreight are generally similar to ones sold by Grizzly, Cummins, Enco and others. The Harborfreight ones are 7x10 instead of 7x12. Micomart sells a version that is a 7x14 with some other features. I personally feel the Cummins is the best deal out there right now at $399 with both a steady and follow rest, drill chuck and some other stuff. You can often catch a Cummins toolshow in your region and save the $80+ shipping charges.

As far as performance goes they are generally pretty good out of the box, some work on the machines can make them excellent performing tools. If you know what you are doing you can do as good work (within the size envelope) as someone with a much large lathe can do. For a muzzlleloading gunsmith they are easily capable of turning out tumblers, screws, breech plugs etc. With a small milling attachment you can do a lot of additional parts. You just have to remember to keep your cuts light and keep in mind that you are not working with a large lathe that can take real deep cuts. My students use these lathes all the time to build parts for small steam engines that I assign and they work nicely for these tasks. If you have any questions email me and I would be happy to help any way I can.

[Joe Stein]

Rich,
I bought one of the Cummins lathes a couple of months ago, after doing a lot of research about all of them.  As someone already stated, they are all made in the same factory in China.  Cummins model comes with the most tooling of all the ones available now. Also, that extra two inches of bed length might come in handy sometime.  Plan on spending about $100 more for tooling to get set up with a decent basic setup.  You're going to need a live center for the tailstock, High Speed steel cutting tools, dial indicator and stand, etc.  Sooner or later you will want a four jaw chuck.

Look at Littlemachineshop.com  They have a good amount of information and links.  Shop around for the best prices on tooling.  I ended up buying most of my tooling from Harbor Freight, but Little Machine Shop has the best selection of chucks.

When you look at the Harbor Freight floor model, remember that the store personnel probably did nothing to properly set up the lathe, and further, hundreds of customers have been messing with it.  It will probably seem a little ragged compared to the one you would get and set up yourself.

Hope this helps.

-Joe

[44-henry]

We have the Cummins lathes in our tech department laboratory. The only accessories that we have sprun for has been the 4-jaw chuck, a quick change toolpost, live center and a tool post grinder, and a set of collets. Of course we already had a lot of basic accessories from other machines in the lab. I would highly recommend bolting it to a sturdy (level) bench, because, although they are portable they function better when bolted down properly.

[Acer Saccharum]

One of the most important features on a lathe for gunsmithing purposes is the

spindle through-hole

This should be 1 3/8" inside diameter to be able to face the end of the barrel, breech, thread and crown. If you have this size thru hole, you don't need a long bed. I do 95% of my work on a lathe with 20" between centers, and most of that work is done up near the headstock.

If you are going to turn barrels, taper, etc, then 40" between centers might be more what you need. But as the center distance increases, so does the floor space and the weight.

[Rich Jakowski]

44-Henry,

Thanks for your very thorough evaluation of mini-lathes. I'm surprised to learn someone's PhD dissertation is focused on these interesting little machines, but it sure sounds like you've had lots of experience with them and know their capabilities and limitations. That was the main purpose of my query. Your response was exactly what I was hoping for and it reinforces my high regard for this forum and all the information one can pick from the folks who participate on it. After reading your comment I get the impression there's a lot worse ways someone could spend +/- $400.

I'm not surprised to learn all the different brands are make by the same company in China. They all look alike except for color, although the Cummings model has a 12" bed.  Unfortunately, when I went to the Harbor Freight store today they were sold out so I didn't get to play with one. I'm going to see when the next Cummings Truck sale will occur in my neighborhood cuz the freight on a 100 pound package would probably add close to an additional $100. 

[44-henry]

Acer is very right in his statement concerning spindle bore size. The mini lathes all have about 3/4" bores, some people have reamed them out to 13/16" and there is enough meat on them to do that, but they generally won't work verywell for doing barrel work, though there is a person on the net that has done some some custom barrel work for a Thompson Contender with one.

I own an older 10" Rockwell lathe that I use when I need to do any barrel work, the lathe itself weighs in at over 1000 pounds with its heavy steel stand. It's a great lathe and I have pretty much all the tooling under the sun for it, but I still find myself using a small Sherline for most of the work I do. The reason why is that I simply like using small lathes for small stuff, I find it easier to work with a small lathe for these types of jobs. I love my Sherline for this stuff, but the mini lathes were discussing are more capable right out of the box.

If you want to see some good resources go to http://www.mini-lathe.com/ to learn about these machines. There a many good links to other sites here also.

[Madcaster]

 There is a Unimat on Auction Arms,seller is "Rostov"-NOT me!!!!

[Dphariss]

If investing in a larger lathe the spindle bore is critical as stated 1 3/8" is about as small as is useful. It will also need an independent 4 jaw chuck.

I crippled along with an old well used Clausing for a long time and it would do good work with careful setup.
But this is a lot better and I only gave 2200 for it very well equipped. It still cuts a slight taper close to the headstock but its a gem compared to the Clausing.

Dan

[Curt Larsen]

I agree with Joe.  You really have to go to a Harbor Freight store to check on quality.  There is a lot of stuff on display and some of it isn't worth the money in my opinion.  Other stuff is.  Your really have to be selective. 

[Rich Jakowski]

I was surprised to see this topic come up again since  I posted the original last June. Dan’s new lathe is a beaut’, but the thought of getting something that size into my basement would have been out of the question – I’m guessing it weighs at least 800 pounds.

I did wind up purchasing a Harbor Freight 7 X 10 minilathe and have been having lots of fun playing with it. It took the good part of a day cleaning up all the preservative grease smeared on it for shipment in addtion to tightening slack in some of the feeds. Making lock screws of all sizes is easy and really a joy after trying to do this with a file and drill press. I recently made a top jaw screw for my 1803 Harpers Ferry lock that was more of a challenge with a small lathe like this.

BTW: My lathe only weighs 80 pounds, but it still was a PIA getting into my cellar shop and mounting to the bench.

[44-henry]

Rich, glad you are enjoying your new toy. Though I have a larger 10" lathe in my basement, I purchased a Protech 7x12 on Ebay this last fall and have been using this for testing and photos as I complete my dissertation. I have upgraded all the 7" lathes we have in our lab with quick change toolposts and holders and this is one of the best things I ever did for these little guy's, you might want to check these out in the future.

[Dphariss]

I was surprised to see this topic come up again since  I posted the original last June. Dan’s new lathe is a beaut’, but the thought of getting something that size into my basement would have been out of the question – I’m guessing it weighs at least 800 pounds.

I did wind up purchasing a Harbor Freight 7 X 10 minilathe and have been having lots of fun playing with it. It took the good part of a day cleaning up all the preservative grease smeared on it for shipment in addtion to tightening slack in some of the feeds. Making lock screws of all sizes is easy and really a joy after trying to do this with a file and drill press. I recently made a top jaw screw for my 1803 Harpers Ferry lock that was more of a challenge with a small lathe like this.

BTW: My lathe only weighs 80 pounds, but it still was a PIA getting into my cellar shop and mounting to the bench.

Actually something like 2200 or 2500 being a 14x40. Takes a pretty good forklift to pick it off a trailer.
Everything is a trade off. I built a shop so I had room for this sort of thing.
If I were buying a small lathe I would try for a 9" it will make better cuts on larger stock.
But even small lathes are incredibly useful. It is then possible to make tumblers, flys, rollers and a host of other things pretty easily.
With a larger lathe fitting or making breeches is made easier.
Working at Shiloh and having access to mills and lathes spoiled me and I had to have my own.
If you have a harbor freight or such nearby go in and turn the dials and check the tailstock etc.
The bigger the dials and the more graduations the better. The old atlas and such with the little bitty dials and coarse graduations are a PITA.
Gap bed lathes are OK so long as you leave the gap in. Some do not always go back in to the original location.
The benchtop mill/drills are handy too.
For those looking for machine tools they appear fairly often in GSA auctions and these are now all or mostly done via computer. But inspection is a good idea.

Dan