Author Topic: thinking outside the horn,,,,?????  (Read 8212 times)

Offline omark west cen colo

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thinking outside the horn,,,,?????
« on: October 24, 2008, 09:47:20 PM »
the other day i was thinking about jamming a cone into a soft horn. it seems like the physics of this act could lead to some unnecessary splits. so i took a piece of 1/2" ply wood and scribed a circle of the approximate size of the horn base. then i tilted my bandsaw table to 10 degrees and cut into the edge of the circle, then cut the circle out. in my mind, this allows for a little bit of spring tension when the horn is inserted and due to the outside tension, it shouldnt crack horns. tried it a couple of times and seems to work. but i am very new at boiling and rounding horns. please let me know if anyone else has thought of / used this idea and what you think of it.    mark
on the 4th of julypeople should fire their guns into the air to show the government who does have the power,,,b franklin!   on these walks make your gun your constant companion,,,t jefferson!   those that will give up freedom for security deserve neither freedom or security,,,b franklin!   west colo

Offline Randy Hedden

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Re: thinking outside the horn,,,,?????
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2008, 10:27:30 PM »
I don't see the difference between using a forming cone and using the 1/2" thick piece of plywood. If a horn is going to split it usually starts to split at the butt end. In that case the 1/2" long former can split the horn as easily as using a longer forming cone. I believe, in many cases, you might find that using a 1/2" former might result in the last half inch of the butt end of the horn bulging out from the natural profile of the rest of the horn.

Randy Hedden

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Offline omark west cen colo

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Re: thinking outside the horn,,,,?????
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2008, 12:53:50 AM »
randy, meant to put the board on the horn, around it, which would cause a compression of the fibres instead of a cone inside that would expand it.
on the 4th of julypeople should fire their guns into the air to show the government who does have the power,,,b franklin!   on these walks make your gun your constant companion,,,t jefferson!   those that will give up freedom for security deserve neither freedom or security,,,b franklin!   west colo

Offline Randy Hedden

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Re: thinking outside the horn,,,,?????
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2008, 04:00:07 AM »
I guess I didn't understand exactly what you were doing with the 1/2" plywood. When rounding a horn, you should not be forcing the cone in to such an extent that you are stretching the horn material. Trying to actually stretch the horn will result in a split horn for sure. I guess your idea might work, but in all the horns I have boiled and rounded with a cone I have only had one split. I boil my horns for rounding in hot oil and you can not leave them in for more than 12-15 seconds. I had a horn in the hot oil and my wife came up and asked me something and I left the horn in the oil to long and it turned to jelly and split when I put a shaping cone in it. This is the only time I have had a horn split while rounding the butt end. Nothing slicker than using hot oil and a rounding cone.

Maybe 30-35 years ago I watched a TV program on National Geographic. I watched a guy take a curly, twisty, rams horn and by using hot oil he straightened the horn a section at a time until he had a straight rams horn for making a shofar. Before watching that TV program I used boiling water  to shape my horns and after watching that program I have used hot oil ever since.

Randy Hedden

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Offline omark west cen colo

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Re: thinking outside the horn,,,,?????
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2008, 06:00:59 AM »
what kind of oil do you use, randy?         mark
on the 4th of julypeople should fire their guns into the air to show the government who does have the power,,,b franklin!   on these walks make your gun your constant companion,,,t jefferson!   those that will give up freedom for security deserve neither freedom or security,,,b franklin!   west colo

Offline Randy Hedden

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Re: thinking outside the horn,,,,?????
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2008, 07:03:59 AM »
what kind of oil do you use, randy?         mark

Mark,

I use the cheapest vegetable oil that I can buy. I buy it in gallon plastic jugs and pour it back into the jug when I am done with it and it has cooled down. A gallon will do a lot of horns even though there is some minimal loss of oil each time you use it. I heat it outside in a 3 pound coffee can on a single burner  Coleman stove.

Randy Hedden

www.harddogrifles.com
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Offline omark west cen colo

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Re: thinking outside the horn,,,,?????
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2008, 08:45:55 PM »
thanks randy
on the 4th of julypeople should fire their guns into the air to show the government who does have the power,,,b franklin!   on these walks make your gun your constant companion,,,t jefferson!   those that will give up freedom for security deserve neither freedom or security,,,b franklin!   west colo

Offline Jerry V Lape

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Re: thinking outside the horn,,,,?????
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2008, 01:31:58 AM »
Get a cheap deep fat fryer at Wal Mart to heat the oil.  The potential for a fire is reduced compared to the Coleman and you can get somewhat better temperature control. 

Offline Randy Hedden

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Re: thinking outside the horn,,,,?????
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2008, 04:47:51 AM »
Get a cheap deep fat fryer at Wal Mart to heat the oil.  The potential for a fire is reduced compared to the Coleman and you can get somewhat better temperature control. 

Jerry,

When I heat my oil it is in a 3 pound coffee can. The can is only about 1/3 full so there is little if any chance of it catching on fire. Using heated oil for rounding horns requires kind of strict control of the temperature of the oil. I heat my oil to 340-350 degrees and use a candy thermometer to check the temperature. With a deep fryer I wouldn't really know what the temperature was relying on the deep fryers thermostat settings so I would have to use a candy thermometer anyhow. You can't get any better heat control than when using a candy thermometer.

Randy Hedden

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Offline Randy Hedden

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Re: thinking outside the horn,,,,?????
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2008, 01:02:58 AM »
Mark,

Did you get a chance to try rounding a horn with an external rounding form? If so, how did it work for you?

Randy Hedden

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Offline omark west cen colo

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Re: thinking outside the horn,,,,?????
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2008, 05:49:49 AM »
yes, randy, i did and it seems to have worked fine. i know that both methods work, just thought from the outside there may be less chance of it cracking but maybe there isnt that much pressure needed. i did use your idea of the hot oil and it worked much better than the water i had used. in a previous post i had talked about a horn cracking in water. i think maybe it was because the horn had laid on the pan bottom while being heated. i will update that post soon. thanks again, mark :)
on the 4th of julypeople should fire their guns into the air to show the government who does have the power,,,b franklin!   on these walks make your gun your constant companion,,,t jefferson!   those that will give up freedom for security deserve neither freedom or security,,,b franklin!   west colo