2F vs 3F pwder

[RB-sunshine]

I have a new Schimmel Barn rifle w. 42" Getz barrel in .50cal.  Builder used 70 gr. of 2F.  I would like to use 3F.  Would I have to reduce the charge using 3F?  Or do you have to use 2F in a .50 cal. ?

 I always  had a .45 cal.  and used 3F.

[Daryl]

sunchine - use what shoots the best.  With a Getz .50, I doubt very much, 70gr. of 2F was a very accurate load at 50 yards of beyond.  Of course, this all depends on what your accuracy requirements are.  That 70gr. 2fcharge, about equivalent to 60gr.3F, will consistantly hit a 6" circle at 50 yards, but that's nothing to crow about.

 If your capability due to not knowing the gun or being new to this game is 3" at 50 yards, and the gun's ability due to it's low powder charge is 5", you will be hard put to shot consistantly under about 10"or so.

790gr. was a litte high - edited

[Scott Semmel]

Daryl? "790 grains" Ouch! I know, just a typo but couldn't stop myself.

[gregg]

Allot of target shooters use 3f.
I am one of the very few that seem to get better groups with 2f in most my rifles?
Not the way I wanted it.. Just seem to work out that way.
I was going to and never got to it start testing in my pistols 2f to 3f and have not yet.
See what shoots best. If your a hunter looking for good FPS might be best to
go to 2f???

[hanshi]

If you're like me, you can't shoot well enough to tell those subtle differences.  I just use 3f for everything to keep it simple.  There are occasions I will use 2f, however.  To equal the powders you'll need to reduce 3f roughly 10% from the 2f load.

[Daryl]

Gregg, you are not alone - most all (only two who don't and 1 new to the sport - the other is cheap ) - use 2F in calibres over .50. We find absoluley no difference in fouling and we also find better accuracy with 2F over 3F - in calibres .50 and above. Some, like LB use 2F .40 as well.  While I use 3F in my .32, .40 and .45, I have accuracy loads developed with 2F in both the .40 and .45 that duplicates point of impact and accuracy, just in case that's all I have.  In those rifles, it takes 10gr. more 2F  match 3Fspeeds and point of impact.

[northmn]

Allot of target shooters use 3f.
I am one of the very few that seem to get better groups with 2f in most my rifles?
Not the way I wanted it.. Just seem to work out that way.
I was going to and never got to it start testing in my pistols 2f to 3f and have not yet.
See what shoots best. If your a hunter looking for good FPS might be best to
go to 2f???

I chronographed a few loads for a few different calibers a while back and posted the results.  One of things I found over the chronograph was that for a 54 the shot to shot variation was about half with 2f over 3f.  It is very possible that would hold with a 50 also.  While it takes a little more 2f to get the same velocity, I think in heavier charges it should be more accurate.  It would take about 100 grains of GOEX 2f to match 80 grains of 3f.  Deer would not notice any differences nor the 100 yard target.  Some of the fouling issues between 3f and 2f could be eliminated by either using adifferent powders or lube.  I found in my 25 that Grafs 3f fouled less hard than GOEX for instance.  Grafs gave less velcoity, but the squirrels do not notice the difference.

DP

[RB-sunshine]

Thanks guys.  I will work with both the 2F and 3F and see how the accuracy goes, and let you know how I made out.

[Don Getz]

For your info.....the late Lynton McKenzie, great engraver and extremely knowledgeable shooter, considered FFF to be a
pistol powder.   Now, back to the 50 cal. barn gun, probably one of my creations, I always considered 50 calibre to be the
swing calibre.....FF or FFF, whatever works best.   Heck, that's the fun of shooting, finding out what works best.......Don

[Roger Fisher]

Shoot the beast and see what she wants

[Harnic]

I always used FFF in 54 & smaller but plan to switch to FF in my new Rice 58 barrel.

[gregg]

Gregg, you are not alone - most all (only two who don't and 1 new to the sport - the other is cheap ) - use 2F in calibres over .50. We find absoluley no difference in fouling and we also find better accuracy with 2F over 3F - in calibres .50 and above. Some, like LB use 2F .40 as well.  While I use 3F in my .32, .40 and .45, I have accuracy loads developed with 2F in both the .40 and .45 that duplicates point of impact and accuracy, just in case that's all I have.  In those rifles, it takes 10gr. more 2F  match 3Fspeeds and point of impact.

Daryl
I was trying to use 3f because every thing you read says burn cleaner and less powder cheaper to shoot. So I would start working up loads for our rifles and 2 f was out shooting better. Everyone around me shooting 3 f? Just as I was stepping out of the sport I got to thinking I should do a test of 2f in my pistoles. Never got to it but plan to before the dirt nap. Nother thing and all rifles are not the same but some will shoot wet water based patched balls beter then grease based patched balls. something to think about for a hunting rifle. Don't want to water base lube when sitting for hours in the woods . Its all fun.
Thank You Daryl don't feel so alone . 

[Mike R]

sunchine - use what shoots the best.  With a Getz .50, I doubt very much, 70gr. of 2F was a very accurate load at 50 yards of beyond.  Of course, this all depends on what your accuracy requirements are.  That 70gr. 2fcharge, about equivalent to 60gr.3F, will consistantly hit a 6" circle at 50 yards, but that's nothing to crow about.

 If your capability due to not knowing the gun or being new to this game is 3" at 50 yards, and the gun's ability due to it's low powder charge is 5", you will be hard put to shot consistantly under about 10"or so.

790gr. was a litte high - edited

The builder of one of my .50s, Don Bruton,  said he used 60 gr fffg for his target work and consistently won matches with it--it was a  Colerain .50 barrel instead of Getz, but the point is that loads are individual things and must be worked out by the shooter for each and every rifle.  My Bruton rifle, also a .50, pretty much identical with his, I found prefers 75 gr fffg.  My .54 Getz barreled rifle also likes 75 gr of fffg or 85 gr ffg!  Go figure...

[Roger Fisher]

My chunker decided she just had to have 2f in lieu of 3, she then shot/shoots tight grps..