trap shooting w flintlock

[axelp]

I have recently been trying my Jim Chambers PA fowler 20 g on a modern trap range. My question is for anyone that has experience with multiple shots like this... The set up is pretty standard. 5 stations in an arc and you are to shoot 5 shots per station. The range is probably 30-45 yards?

What do you use to keep the fouling soft? do you lube your over powder wads? if so with what? I tried to just use spit to coat my cards but I still am having trouble with hard dry fowling after about 8 shots... should I clean my bore after each station? (5 shots) or if I soaked my wads in olive oil and beeswax mixture. would that help?

My last outing, I hit 4 out of 5 birds the first station, then hit the next two, but then started to have misfires and my hits dropped off to only 1 or two out of a 5 shot group the rest of the way thru.

With modern shotgun it is usual for me to average 3-4 out of 5 for trap. My fowler seems to have no trouble reaching out and hitting these birds (when I do my part anyway, and my gun is clean enuff)

Any advice would be helpful. I have found using a flinter is easier on my shoulder and although it slows everything down, I feel less tired after a round than I do when I use my modern gun..

thanks

Ken

[omark]

might want to try soaking your cushion wads in mix of beeswax and vaseline or some sort of animal lube like many use for patches in rifles.  i dont soak over powder wads but im usually hunting with mine.    mark

[wmrike]

If you are standing on the 16 yard line, thirty five yards is a handy number to use for the distance to target.  Some will shoot a little quicker, some slower.  That said, pushing a fairly light payload without a choke, that distance is a stretch.  Think of a skeet gun that is designed to deliver optimum patterns at only 25 yards.  Relative to modern smokeless loads with their shot cups, a blackpowder gun produces pretty splotchy patterns, so that's another obstacle.  It's great fun, but you have your work cut out.

[northmn]

When I shot trap with a ML I sometimes kept a cup of water handy and used fiber wads which were soaked in the cup of water. While I know some recommend using just card wads, this did help fouling. These would get pretty wet but were placed on top of a dry card wad.  25 shots makes for a long session and a modern trap range is tougher using a flintlock.  We used to only compete at the 10 yard.  Also I would recommend using 7.5 shot as a BP gun has a little less velocity than a modern one.  Also use magnum shot whcih will pattern tighter.   Swiss powder and Grafs seem to have more forgiving fouling than Goex.  I also place the touch hole pick in the vent while loading on some flinters and really pick out the vent before loading.  On my 20 bore, I seem to have good luck by working in a little primer through the vent.

DP

[axelp]

fiberwads in a cup of water... thats an interesting idea...

I am using #5 shot as it is all I have at the moment. I am going to try some #6 though. I was surprized that my shots seem to be reaching the bird ok--I have not yet tried to shoot faster. yet.

[Daryl]

Shooting flying birds or clays with a flint, for me, demands a consistant lead - at least for a few feet, while waiting for the shot to go off - you know what I mean. With a cap-lock, I swing up quickly form behind, slapping hte trigger when the front of the barrel 'hits' the bird. This gives an automatic proper lead, for me with muzzleloader or with a modern gun.  I don't look at the sights with them. With a flinter, I lead with the bead.

Sopping wet fibre wads, squeezed out then loaded, worked for me wth a capdouble for clays.  We only shot 10 shots, though, but there was no change in fouling.

[northmn]

I might add that you might want to use fairly thin fiber wads like 1/4" or a little less.  In freezing weather some use windshield washer.

DP

[Robby]

Ken, I really enjoy shooting trap with the flintlocks, especially when the boys are home. The slow pace lends itself to making it a social event as much as a contest, great fun. I don't lube the over powder card, and like DP, I use about a 1/4" thick cushion wad. I put the cushions in a baggie with olive oil and let them take all they will, give them a little squeeze, and sling off the excess before loading, fouling is soft.
Robby

[axelp]

I have been using two dry 1/8" paper cards for an over powder wad, and I use a split half of one card for the over shot.

The load I have been using is 65 gr FFF, and an 80 gr measure of #5 shot. This load has been great for pheasant & Squirrel and seems to work ok for trap---except for the fouling problem.  Maybe smaller shot would be better.

I am going to buy some fiber wads and soak them in olive oil... or just water...that seems like a good place to start.

Actually I might just soak my paper card wads in olive oil and try that first...

thanks, K

[Robby]

Ken, For trap, I use #8 shot, and 65 gr., 2f, for game, I increase the powder to 80gr., and larger shot depending on what I am hunting. I think if you soak those heavy, cardboard, over powder wads they will swell up and be a bear to  start.

[axelp]

good point on the cardboard wads. I will buy some fiberwads. I have some #6 shot in ITX on order and need to test it anyways---

K

[ERH]

I soke all my fiber wads in melted wonder lube . Put the wonder lube in the microwave and heat it up then take a big leather needle and stick them and dip them in and then let them sit till lube gets hard again . It goes fast but dose use alot of lube but u can shoot alot with out cleaning

[ironramrod]

Ken,

Not a flintlock, but I shoot clay pidgeons in my percussion double barrel shotguns and 1 single shot shotgun.  What I do is pour in the powder (FFg), and push a 0.125 card wad down on top of the powder, and dump in the shot.  Before I push down the overshot wad I spray 2 light sprays of 50:50 mix of water:windshield washer fluid down the barrels.  I have the spray in a small size pump spray bottle.  Then I push an overshot wad down on the shot, cap both barrels and I'm good to go.  When I shoot clay pidgeons I typically shoot for an hour or more, and never have to clean the gun once.  If the overpowder wad starts to load a little harder, I increase the spray a little more.  Also, the spray doesn't soak through the overpowder wad and dampen the powder.  I also use a 5/8" hardwood dowel rod for a ramrod on the shotguns; I've never broken one of these rods loading my shotguns.

For hunting I typically spit a good gob down each barrel in place of the spray.  However, once the outside temps get down below +20 or so I then carry the sprayer along in a coat pocket.   Regards

[Daryl]

When shooting trap with the 20 bore flint, I put a good layer of spit on the cushion wad before shoving it down. There was already an overpowder wad on the powder. Then I dumped in the shot, then overshot wad.  In 15 rounds of trap, there was no problem loading as it remained the same all through the shooting.

I like the idea of the spray down the tube before seating the "B" wad - it would be a lot easier than getting up a good quantity of spit on hot dry days.

I'll use a spray bottle from now of when shooting clays, although for hunting, it's neetsfoot or olive oil for the fiber wads.   They can be carried in a metal box lkke a sucrets box, or a plastic bullet box- Speer  and Barnes come to mind.  The Barnes boxes are black.  I will not walk around hunting with water in my bore, with rifle or smoothbore.

[axelp]

some great ideas here guys, thanks. I am looking forward to trying them all--- hopefully I will be able to shoot trap better with my flinter.

K

[Berks Liberty]

You got me thinking about my 20g and the loads I want to use for turkey.  What would you suggest for how much shot to use for turkey?  I have a bag of lead #6. 

Jason

[axelp]

You need to pattern it yourself for your gun. I have never achieved a perfect pattern for turkey, but I generally use this load for just about everything:

65 grains of FFF or 75 grains of FF goex bp.
90-100 grain measure of shot--#5 shot is what I have on hand so I use that.
I use the thinnest over shot card I can find that works, and I like those fiber wads, but I happen to have a bag of cardboard wads so I have been using two of those over the powder.

---seems to work ok for pheasant, tree squirrels and trap, but still, not a perfect pattern for turkey... I 'd like to get a smaller denser pattern for that, but so far, I have not been able to accomplish it.

good luck!

K

[Berks Liberty]

Thanks Ken,

I'm using Colerain's 20g turkey barrel and I'm just not sure where to start the chain of events to see what it will like. 

Jason

[Daryl]

I would start at 75gr. 2F - a hard pover powder card wad, 1/2 a cushion wad, 1oz shot over shot wad and pattern it - 3 to 5 shots, making sure I used a large sheet of paper (black dot aiming point in the middle). Look for clay target (or larger) sized holes in the pattern which would indicte wads punching through the pattern.  I would shoot at 30 yards.  Form there, you can adjust the powder charge up and down a bit, 5 gr. incriments, was well as the shot charge, up to 1 1/8oz or down to 7/8oz.  It doesn't sound like much latitude, but will make a difference in the patterns.  My 20 gauge likes 75gr. 2f and 1 1/8oz shot.  That's a 75gr. powder measure + an 80gr. measure full of shot.  The extra 1/8oz evens out my pattern nicely to 40 yards.(lightly muzzle choked barrel)

[northmn]

One generalization for patterning any gun.  Make sure you use hard shot.  Round ball talks about how good Eco shot or Nice Shot (depending on who you buy it from) patterns.  For turkey I would consider getting a kilo of the stuff in 5's and try it as it does not deform as esily as lead.  Lead should ideally be nickel plated for best patterns.  Nickel plated shot was developed for the old live pigeon shooting competitions where considerable money rested on success.  (I believe now the game is finished due to animal rights activists who like pigeon droppings on statues and city light poles).  It was popular in Europe and Mexico.  Tom Roster also found that the best patterns from modern loads came from use of shot sleeves and fiber wads and not plastic shot cups.  You might try making shot sleeves to see if they tighten patterns.  Many like paper  You short start your over powder wads and insert the cleeve then fill it with shot, place a card over it and seat the whole thing.  Low pressure makes for tighter patterns also.

DP

[Berks Liberty]

Now you got me really thinking!  Thank You! 

Jason

[axelp]

a friend just sent me this:

60 grains of FFF an over powder card then 1/2 greased fiber wad...then a paper shot cup open at one end with 120 grain measure of shot, then a thin over shot card. He says that at 30 yards he gets 30 plus pellets in the head of a turkey with that.

I am gonna try that and see. He said that the 1 to 2 powder to shot ratio did the trick for him...

although he warned me that the recoil is pretty heavy.

K

[roundball]

You got me thinking about my 20g and the loads I want to use for turkey.  What would you suggest for how much shot to use for turkey?  I have a bag of lead #6.  

Jason

Bob Spencer's web site (below) has his recommendation and its worked perfectly for me over the past 4 turkey seasons...just sighted in my new .62cal Virginia yesterday.
Note:
Instead of the suggested 1/2" cushion wad...I use two 1/8" prelubed Oxyoke Wads(actualy home-made with an 11/16" Arch punch and Duro-Felt)

80grn measure Goex 3F
Two prelubed 1/8" wads (made from Duro-Felt)
1 Circle Fly OS card (to prevent pellets from imbedding into the felt at set-back)
120grn measure of 6's
2 Circle Fly OS cards

http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/SmoothboreLoads.html

[RwBeV]

I shoot trap in Colorado at the shoot the the Colorado Springs club puts on Memorial weekend, its a great shoot!!  I shoot an origanal 1816 Harper's Ferry 69cal smooth bore.  For trap I normally load just like VM Star suggested, 2 and half drams 2f Goex and 1 hard card wad, they are about .125 thick, 1oz. chilled hard #8 shot but insted of spitting down the barrel we use a spray bottle with a little soapy water,(I cant seam to come up with enough spit to go through a match) I set the spray as fine a mist as it will go, just one small squirt just before the over shot card.  I use Circle Fly over shot wads on top of the whole mess.  This load works great for us, I never have to clean any of my shot guns during the match.  I use this same load last year for Doves I dint know how much shot and powder we went through but by the time we where done my hands where black, my face was black and I had a big smile on my face.  For turkey I use 3 drams FFg, 1 heavy card wad and 1 1/4oz of #5 or #6 I dint spit down the barrel as I dint shoot near as much.  This load also works real good for ducks and geese except I use 1 1/4oz of #2 bismuth.  Give the spray bottle a try just dint use to much or you have big gob of wet black powder to contend with, not that I would do anything like that!!

Bob

[Daryl]

The 120gr. measure holds 1 5/8oz shot - that's 711 grains weight - just like shooting 2 1/3 balls, except the shot creats more pressure than 2 balls would due to it's added friction on the tube.  I would not be shooting that in thin walled smoothbore- expecially with 3f powder.

Each to his own - if alone.