Author Topic: colerain barrels (Read 16782 times)

hoochiepapa · « **on:** February 10, 2011, 07:49:48 PM »

This is a 16 ga. barrel that I intended to use for a personal fowler. I removed the breech plug to inlet it, and found that there is no shoulder for it to seat on. Also the bore and the hole for the plug do not line up. Being new to this, I conferred with some friends of mine on another site, and they said I should send it back. I called the Company first to get their reaction, and the loser on the other end told me everyhing was okay, just remove the plug everytime I clean it.

He said that was what he does.
So here ya go, have heard lots of bad stuff about them, and now I can relate.

Blacksmoke · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2011, 08:03:55 PM »

hoochiepapa: From the photo that you posted it looks like that there is in fact a small inner shoulder for the breech plug to seat against - you do not need much - but make sure that the breech plug face engages that small shoulder. The main concern is sealing the breech plug threads so that gasses cannot escape back towards the shooter's face. I do this with locktite as I do not recommend the removal of the breech plug every time you clean the gun! Whoever told you to do that is misinformed. As to the bore being slightly off to one side - this will not hurt anything. Hope that helps, Hugh Toenjes

ERH · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2011, 08:08:03 PM »

that's a first for me but i dint think i would use that barrel !!!!!!!! That's just my opinion but my face worth more then a new barrel. but i am far from a barrel expert.. maybe Don will give his opinion.

Model19 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2011, 08:19:59 PM »

I just got one last week. Guess I better eyeball mine too. How much of a shoulder should I be looking for? I'd think any gasses would have a hard time getting through all that threading to exit though.

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2011, 08:20:27 PM »

I am interested in Don's opinion as well...AND you have just heard from one barrel maker/expert in Hugh Toenjes.

Roger Fisher · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2011, 09:52:34 PM »

Quote from: Model19 on February 10, 2011, 08:19:59 PM

I just got one last week. Guess I better eyeball mine too. How much of a shoulder should I be looking for? I'd think any gasses would have a hard time getting through all that threading to exit though.

Hot gases would possibly cut those threads over time til she starts leaking, not good!

rich pierce · « **Reply #6 on:** February 10, 2011, 10:28:30 PM »

The shoulder can be very thin and be OK. The problem is that if the threaded portion is not concentric with the bore, there will be no or little shoulder on one side. Not an ideal way to start out.

hoochiepapa · « **Reply #7 on:** February 10, 2011, 10:31:33 PM »

Quote from: Blacksmoke on February 10, 2011, 08:03:55 PM

hoochiepapa: From the photo that you posted it looks like that there is in fact a small inner shoulder for the breech plug to seat against - you do not need much - but make sure that the breech plug face engages that small shoulder. The main concern is sealing the breech plug threads so that gasses cannot escape back towards the shooter's face. I do this with locktite as I do not recommend the removal of the breech plug every time you clean the gun! Whoever told you to do that is misinformed. As to the bore being slightly off to one side - this will not hurt anything. Hope that helps, Hugh Toenjes

Sir, that shoulder only goes about halfway around. The breech plug does butt against it, but what about the part where there is no shoulder?
I have had some say that the originals were somewhat like this, but at $183 a pop, and in this day and age, shouldn't I get what I paid for? This fowler is for me, so no ones else would be in any danger, but with the bull@$^* he told me over the phone, now I trust them even less.
I'm posting this because I have heard of their lack of quality, and want the world to know that this is what they're putting out there. Sad part is, I've already inletted the barrel. And I am new, but I know enough to call him a liar about removing the breechplug at cleaning.

Dr. Tim-Boone · « **Reply #8 on:** February 10, 2011, 10:41:07 PM »

Call again and demand to talk with the owners. If they give you the same problem, I would be very surprised.

TPH · « **Reply #9 on:** February 10, 2011, 10:54:28 PM »

Colerain makes an excellent product. What is the gauge of your barrel? What does it measure across the flats? And last, what sized breachplug does it have?

David Rase · « **Reply #10 on:** February 10, 2011, 11:21:22 PM »

hoochiepapa
Sorry to hear about your experience with Colrain and your 16g barrel. I have 2 of their 16g barrels and both of them are excellent! One is their 44" oct/rd barrel and the other is a 42" C weight swamped barrel. I have not shot the second barrel yet as the project is not finished but the oct/rd barrel is a tack driving smoothie. When I called Colrain to order the C weight they were very plesent and I had my barrel in 2 weeks.
DMR

Dave K · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2011, 11:39:20 PM »

David, that has been my experience as well. Good people with good knowledge and helpful. They have to know what you are wanting for them to respond in a positive manner. I would say, to settle down, prepare what you need to tell them so that it is easy to understand and call them again. When I have talked to them, the few times that I did, they were more than helpful and kind to me. As it turned out, of all my custom guns, they all have Colerain barrels.

Bill of the 45th · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2011, 11:55:21 PM »

At the very least that is a factory second, and should have been priced and advertised as such, when sold. Appears to be a failure of QC inspection. If you got it direct from Colerain, just send it back, with the request for a replacement. If you got it thru Track or some other supplier you need to deal with them first. Stuff like this happens, you should get a resolution that is satisfactory to you. I'm sure every barrel maker has some "oops" barrels because of machinery malfunction, and they should not make it to us, the customer. But sometimes @#$%/!! happens.

Bill

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2011, 12:00:02 AM »

I admire Hugh for his common sense approach, and agree with him 100%. The above pictures are of a pair of 14 bore Staudenmayer barrels and their breeches. As you can see, there is no shoulder, the plugs each have 3/8" long journals, and the threads are bright both on the plugs and in the barrels. I have no way of knowing how much this shotgun was used, but I know it had a long history, since it was made a flintlock and converted to percussion. The bores look horrible in this image, but with one pass of a reamer, they cleaned up perfectly. I suspect that this is the first time in the barrels' life that the plugs have been removed.

When you look into that Colerain breech thread, you may be seeing where the thread runs out - it may not be off-centre at all!

hoochiepapa · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2011, 12:16:48 AM »

Quote from: TPH on February 10, 2011, 10:54:28 PM

Colerain makes an excellent product. What is the gauge of your barrel? What does it measure across the flats? And last, what sized breachplug does it have?

16 ga., 7/16" across the flats at the breech, 3/8" at the wedding band. o.d. of breech plug threads is 3/4.
I have not heard of this "excellent product" from others only rough bores, breech plugs that did not bottom either on the end of the barrel or inside. Most complaints were of the breech plugs. I know there are those here that know a lot more than me, but if you look at the pic I posted, you can see the shoulder on one side and no shoulder on the other. I could not get a better pic. It definitly is not runout on the threads. I will call them again tomorrow. I'm not getting that fowler built for turkey season.

billd · « **Reply #15 on:** February 11, 2011, 12:44:16 AM »

I'm not going to comment on the barrel, but what Bill Knapp said about going to the distributor first. I received a bad barrel last year from Troy. My thinking was he didn't make it, why blame him and waste his time and postage. I called directly to the barrel maker, told them who I bought it from and described the problem and it was promptly replaced. Troy doesn't even know about it, at least till he reads this post.

Bill

hoochiepapa · « **Reply #16 on:** February 11, 2011, 01:32:37 AM »

Yeah, that's who I bought this one from. And I also don't think he should be bothered with it, for the same reason.
It has been suggested that I send it back to colerain insured and signed receipt. But then they will have my barrel and I'm out the barrel and the money. Guess I'll go ahead with my build, seems as though nothing else will transpire. I'll never buy another one of their barrels.

Mike Brooks · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2011, 02:13:56 AM »

Some of you fellas ought to unbreech some antique barrels and see what you find. You'd be alot more confident in modern barrel breeching/.

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2011, 02:17:50 AM »

Mike, that's the point I was trying to make.

hoochiepapa · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2011, 02:19:19 AM »

I've heard that from others, and what's upsetting is the bad treatment I got from them. Others say they are wonderful, but I got a basket full of lies when I called them. If it's okay to use, would you put it on a fowler for a customer? This is for me, so I believe what you and a couple of others have said.
I'm just upset more than anything over the bad treatment.
You build nice guns, Mike.

northmn · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2011, 02:24:01 AM »

The run out on that barrel is nothing compared to the old Douglas. If it bothers you now it probably will even after the build so you may want to send it back. A .75 Breechplug over a .66 bore does not leave much of a shoulder when you look at the room for tapping. A drill size of 11/16 is used to tap a 3/4X16 hole. Probably not as far off as you think. Other option would be to go to 7/8 plug as in 12 bore. I would not hesitate to use the barrel and put the runout up or down.

DP

Jim Kibler · « **Reply #21 on:** February 11, 2011, 02:48:08 AM »

I don't know the exact size of a Colerain 16 bore, but I suspect they simply threaded the bore for the plug. 16 bore would be very close to the appropriate size for a 3/4" plug. Beware that a threaded hole can look off center when it is actually not. A shoulder is nice, but if there is a good fit between plug and barrel I wouldn't worry about it.

Don Getz · « **Reply #22 on:** February 11, 2011, 03:04:22 AM »

Hooch........you're kind of new to the game, aren't you? Now you're going to hear it from two barrel makers. Hugh and I.
Put a little pipe dope on the threads, makes em' go in nice and easy. What is your concern about the barrel? Are you afraid
it will blow out on one side, or, maybe leak some gas back thru the threads.....I doubt it. Just screw that plug back in and build
your gun, no problem. You have a plug that measures .750 diameter on the outside, which has been fit into a barrel with a
bore about .665, not a whole lot but enough. You run into these situations a lot in those big bores. Bear in mind, the pressures in a big smoothbore are a lot less than a 50 cal. rifle. Honestly, I don't really see any problem with using this barrel.
I'm not positive of this but if you bought a 16 ga. barrel from another company, you might get the same thread size.....Don

hoochiepapa · « **Reply #23 on:** February 11, 2011, 05:07:15 AM »

Quote from: Don Getz on February 11, 2011, 03:04:22 AM

Hooch........you're kind of new to the game, aren't you? Now you're going to hear it from two barrel makers. Hugh and I.
Put a little pipe dope on the threads, makes em' go in nice and easy. What is your concern about the barrel? Are you afraid
it will blow out on one side, or, maybe leak some gas back thru the threads.....I doubt it. Just screw that plug back in and build
your gun, no problem. You have a plug that measures .750 diameter on the outside, which has been fit into a barrel with a
bore about .665, not a whole lot but enough. You run into these situations a lot in those big bores. Bear in mind, the pressures in a big smoothbore are a lot less than a 50 cal. rifle. Honestly, I don't really see any problem with using this barrel.
I'm not positive of this but if you bought a 16 ga. barrel from another company, you might get the same thread size.....Don

I am honored to recieve a response from you, I have one of your barrels on my late lancaster, and have heard nothing but good about you and your product.
Yes, I'm new and I have received quite a bit of advice from other builders on this situation. Most think they should replace the barrel, others say as you do. My complaint is the treatment I got from them. I have resigned myself that I will use the barrel, but I am not happy with their responses or lack there of.
Finally, I would like to apologize to everyone here for my outburst, if I have offended anyone please accept my heartfelt apology.
Mike

smylee grouch · « **Reply #24 on:** February 11, 2011, 05:25:17 AM »

Hoochipapa: I think you should atleast talk to #1 at Colerain and let him atleast try to resolve the problem, he might not even know of it yet. I'm with you in that you deserve to be heard but so does the #1 guy at Colerain. Give him a try. IMHO Best wishes Gary

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Author Topic: colerain barrels (Read 16782 times)

hoochiepapa

ERH

hoochiepapa

Dave K

hoochiepapa

billd

hoochiepapa

hoochiepapa

northmn

hoochiepapa