Brush & swab between shots?

[iowaboy]

Found a Pedersoli (the blueridge) .45 percussion rifle that my dad bought me about 20 years ago.  I went off to college 15 years ago and it went into the closet.  I remember shooting my dad's .54 TC Hawken all day long when we would go shooting, without brushing or swabbing all day.  I didn't like to shoot the Pedersoli because it required a good brushing AND swabbing between each shot, necessitating packing quite a bit more equipment through the forest.  Is this common of a Pedersoli or could I have been doing something wrong?

[Harnic]

Chances are you're using a loose patch/ball combination, &/or inadequate lube.  If the bore is smooth, the load has to be the problem.  Better to have a slightly too tight combination than too loose.

[Old Ford2]

You shouldn't have to brush & swab between shots, if your loading procedures are good.
SMALLER BORES CAN BE MORE DIFFICULT THAN LARGE BORES.
But not always.
To shoot well with any firearm, you must be consistant.
In the case of a muzzleloader, you start with your loading procedures.
Each shot must be the same as the last.
So if your powder, patch, ball, and ramming procedure are not consistant, your groups will not.
So if you powder and ball are the same from shot to shot, so must your patch and ball be the same. Meaning the fit of the ball to the bore, which is governed by the patch, with some form of gas seal, cleaning of fowling from shot to shot.
If your patch & ball combination is too loose, the patch will burn through, resulting in little or no seal, and increasing the fowling.
Many shooters will actually put some form of material between powder and ball to prevent burn through and assist lubrication.
If your patch and ball combination is correct, you will actually impart pattern of rifeling  and patch pattern on the ball when loading.
A properly crowned barrel and short starter will greatly help loading.
The Dutch Shultz (spelling) loading process will make a you a pro at shooting your Pedersoli.
All the best!
Old Ford

[iowaboy]

Thanks guys for the replies.  I should be a little more detailed.  The lubed and patched ball goes in as easily as the TC but seems to "stick" about half way down the barrel if you don't brush and swab.  I've busted many ramrods off trying to seat a load and had many very experienced muzzleloader shooters do the same.  I've experimented with patched balls, unpatched balls, and varied the caliber of the ball.  I think the last box I tried was .440.  Still, nothing worked unless I brushed heavily, then swabbed.  I was so frustrated with it that I would probably have sold it and bought a TC Hawken if the blueridge wasn't such a beautiful gun. 

Oh one more thing- I could never seem to find a percussion cap that would fit right on the nipple.  I always had to squeeze the cap to get it to stay on while walking around.

[Old Ford2]

That tight spot, may be some sort of damage (pitting, poor rifling ) clean barrel, then check with a bore light.
You may remove this tight spot by polishing, or lapping. BE CAREFUL!!! you can damage the rifling if not done properly.
Some import guns require a #10 cap to fit their nipples. Get a good quality nipple, and you will enjoy your rifle more.Standard nipples take a #11 cap which is most common in the USA,  most likely your thread on the nipple now is metric, be sure to get one that matches. A stainless, or berillium copper will last a very long time.
Make sure your hammer meets the top of the nipple properly.
Old Ford

[roamer]

Thats interesting,I seem to spit swab after every shot,just seems more consistent

[Harnic]

It sounds like you have some pitting mid way down the barrel.  Lapping may help, but a replacement barrel will do the best job.  I can shoot all day with my 50 cal GM barrel using 70 gr fff & never wipe.  The loading process provides all the wiping needed.  I use a prb & Hoppes #9 Plus for patch lube.

For your cap problem, try replacing the nipple.

[iowaboy]

I suppose I should get brave, pop the breech plug, and have a look at the barrel.  I got the gun new from Cabelas, so I hope its not a faulty barrel.  I originally complained to them and they told me long rifles required brushing and swabbing between shots so I dismissed it as not having done my homework prior to buying. 

As for the nipple... I can't find another that fits the threads.  It is not a standard nipple of any kind that I know of.

[bgf]

The tight spot could also be from a barrel lug or sight dovetail. Mark the rod when you hit it, then see what is on the barrel at that spot.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I replaced the barrel of a Pedersoli rifle a few years ago because of issues such as you have described.  I pulled the breech plug, and discovered two sets of rifling grooves...one spiral, and the other straight.  Yes, in the same barrel.  The rifle got a Rice barrel, so I had to open up the channel a little to go from metric to Imperial, but now the rifle is a joy to use.

Good luck.

[Daryl]

I replaced the barrel of a Pedersoli rifle a few years ago because of issues such as you have described.  I pulled the breech plug, and discovered two sets of rifling grooves...one spiral, and the other straight.  Yes, in the same barrel.  The rifle got a Rice barrel, so I had to open up the channel a little to go from metric to Imperial, but now the rifle is a joy to use.

Good luck.

 = Pedersoli = after also doing some stock work to the comb to keep it from smacking the shooter's face.

That barrel Taylor described was really a piece of work.  One other fellow up here has one as well, and it's barrel seems to be OK - in .50 cal. The comb needed work on it as well.

Sounds as if that one is in need of a new tube, iowaboy.

NO rifle should need wiping to allow loading the next shot - I don't care what depth the rifling is, they all will shoot all day without wiping - baring some problem with the insides, as in pitting or other roughness which holds fouling.  My .32 is the cleanest shooting gun I have (they all shoot cleanly) - loads a .0215" ticking patch with a .312" ball with 2 fingers after being started. It uses 35gr. to 40gr. 3F.  The 70th shot loads as easily as the first.  There is NO buildup of fouling. If there is, something in the load or barrel is at fault. You get to find out what it is through the elimination process.

If Cabalas said you need to clean between shots - they know little to nothing about the intracacies of black powder shooting.

Are you using real Black Powder or one of the substitutes as in T-7, Shockey's Gold or Pyrodex?  If you are using a substitute, the bore is likely rotted badly and you need a new barrel.

1st thing to do is to pull the breech.

[iowaboy]

How should the breechplug come out?  Is it threaded? 

Daryl-- I have only probably put 100 rounds through it since new.  I've used black triple F, Pyrodex P, and Black Mag.  I cleaned it meticulously after each day out.  It has sat in the closet untouched for 15 years.

If I find two sets of rifling, what are the odds of Pedersoli making right after 20 years?

The machine shop guys love this rifle.  The owner says its far and away the nicest looking rifle he's ever seen and has offered to buy it.  I bet he would jump at the chance to pull the plug for me, and maybe bore and rifle it out to .50 cal.

[whitebear]

A machine shop probably would not have the rifling machine needed for this.  Also it probably would be cheaper to replace the barrel as machine work is quite expensive by the hour.

[ironramrod]

Iowa,

As a first cut at looking down your barrel w/o removing the breech try this, if you have a worm patch puller that screws into the end of your ramrod, cleaning rod, etc.  Cut a 2"x 2" piece of clean white t-shirt material, white dish towel or piece of paper towel (Viva is the absolute best for this), and push it down a clean barrel to the breech plug; don't jam it in just push it down to the breech plug.  Then shine a good flashlight down the barrel, and you will be able to see clearly if there is anything down your barrel that is causing you the problems.

Regards

[Scott Semmel]

You have had responses from folks with a bunch more knowledge than me. But I have a  question. Did the barrel always have the problem you describe or just when you returned to using it? If the problem was not there when the gun was new you may have a rough bore especially if you used pyrodex. I'm convinced that $#@* was designed to corrode bores so manufacturers could sell more production guns.
If this is a new problem rather than a problem from day one you may want to try scrubbing the bore with some scotchbrite wrapped around a brush or leather lapping it to smooth it a bit.

[Harnic]

As for the nipple... I can't find another that fits the threads.  It is not a standard nipple of any kind that I know of.

It takes a metric nipple.  The 6-.75mm size should fit & all the major manufacturers make it

[Daryl]

Found a Pedersoli (the blueridge) .45 percussion rifle that my dad bought me about 20 years ago.  I went off to college 15 years ago and it went into the closet.  I remember shooting my dad's .54 TC Hawken all day long when we would go shooting, without brushing or swabbing all day.  I didn't like to shoot the Pedersoli because it required a good brushing AND swabbing between each shot, necessitating packing quite a bit more equipment through the forest.  Is this common of a Pedersoli or could I have been doing something wrong?

This statement indicates the Pedersoli was this way from day one.

As the shallow rifled TC, a gun many have trouble with, was not giving trouble, this indicates problems with the Pedersoli.

Any problems inside the Pedersoli may have been exacerbated by the use of the phony powders with high concentrations of trichlorates in their composition.

The breech plug had better be threaded.  There is no other way to safely install a breech plug.

Breech plug removal can be difficult depending on how it was put in. Some are locked by the drum, while others were merely put in with a 5 foot long cheater bar, which ruined the threads for future use.

If you don't want to re-barrel and just want to check it out, then perhaps:    The machine shop might have a scope with a battery operated, long flexible shaft for looking into dark, deep places. I'd ask as that tool can work as a bore scope - Hilty or Cat brand, I think.  Barring that, small diamaeter flash lights are available in some novelty shops and can be used for the same purpose - dropping down the bore for a look-see. Some are too bright as-is and the lense must be 'capped' with masking tape.

It is doubtful Pedersoli will warant that gun.

[Roger Fisher]

How should the breechplug come out?  Is it threaded?  

Daryl-- I have only probably put 100 rounds through it since new.  I've used black triple F, Pyrodex P, and Black Mag.  I cleaned it meticulously after each day out.  It has sat in the closet untouched for 15 years.

If I find two sets of rifling, what are the odds of Pedersoli making right after 20 years?

The machine shop guys love this rifle.  The owner says its far and away the nicest looking rifle he's ever seen and has offered to buy it.  I bet he would jump at the chance to pull the plug for me, and maybe bore and rifle it out to .50 cal.

Jeez, sell the beastie, and get a real and more trouble free rifle....