New barrel & ball mould

[Harnic]

While I was in hospital late last month my new Rice 58 cal barrel (from Troy at Stonewall Creek Outfitters)  & a Lyman .570 rb mould showed up.  I haven't recovered from the surgery enough to work on replacing the barrel on my Track fullstock flint Hawken yet, but I went out to the shop this afternoon & broke in the new mould.  Wow!  What a difference in size & weight between a 50 cal & a 58!  I never noticed any recoil at all from the 50, I bet this one will get my attention!  Daryl or Taylor, what's a good working load to play with in 58 cal?

[Wyoming Mike]

I use 60 gr 3F with a .570 ball and .023 ticking for 25 and 50 yard plinking and target work.  I go up to 85 gr 3F for 100 yards and hunting.  Recoil is not bad at all.  My fullstock Hawken comes in at 10 1/5 pounds.  That extra weight does a lot to dampen recoil

[Harnic]

Thanks Mike, I have been thinking I'd use 90 grs of 2f GOEX as a starting point.  I have 5 or 6 pounds of 3f left from the 50 cal barrel, but I'll shoot it in my Ruger Old Army.  My experience suggests 2f would be a more accurate choice than 3f.  How does 3f shoot in your Hawken?  Mine weighs about the same & as the 50 cal had minor recoil, I was confident the 58 wouldn't be a problem.  I'm not bothered by the recoil of my 45-110 Sharps launching 520 grain bullets from a 10 pound rifle so a 280 gr ball from a rifle nearly a pound heavier won't be an issue.

[Daryl]

A slow twist .58 is not a good calibre for someone who is recoil shy - especially with a Hawken's butt shape.  A flat or shotgun butt is better for the larger calibres.

I've a 48" twist .58 Enfield that does well with 85gr. 2F - even at 100 yards for 3" groups - I thought that was ok due to the 24" bl. and short sight radius with mitiary sights.  I am sure it would do better with more powder, but it is light and I haven't shot more in it - yet.

I've a .58 cal. Double Rifle (again 48" twist, I think) that puts individual barrel groups into 1" or under at 50 yards and both barrels into 1 1/2"- with 100gr. 2F.  This gun weighs 9 1/2 pounds and doesn't kick much at all - shotgun butt. With 110gr. it regulates perfectly (shooting parallel) - recoil is no different from the 100gr. load and is more accurate yet.

I've owned 1/2 dozen other .58's with slower twists since 1974 and every one of them liked 140gr. 2f for long range accuracy.  I rarely shot closer than 100yards with them, a few times plinking at 50.  My .58 Hawken at 11 1/2 pounds, with 140gr.2F to 200gr.2F and round ball, and up to 160gr.2F with slugs to 650gr., sort-of got my attention, recoil wise, considering the .577 Black Powder Express's heaviest load was the same 160gr. powder and a 650gr. bullet.

Dennis, I would not expect much in the way of great accuracy beyond 50 yards with less than 100gr. 2F.  I would not use 3F - fast pressure rise which might give a sharper recoil generation - just a thought.  It all depends on what your expectations and requirements for accuracy are.

100gr. should be easy to shoot in a heavy Hawken.  Taylor, Crispy & LB can attest to the accuracy of my Double Rifle's little 100gr. load.  I am using a .570" ball from a Lyman mould (Taylor's), but would prefer a .575"- I lack that mould at this time.  It shoots the .570" just fine.  Those mic .570" X .570" and I use .0215" ticking or .0225" denim. If I had a .58 with deeper than .008" grooves, I would definitely be using a .575" round ball with .022" or thicker patching.

The swaged Speer .570's that were given to me, did not match the accuracy of my cast balls in this rifle (or the Enfield).  They gave about the same accuracy as the .562" Lee mould I have that casts .565" X .570" from both cavities - so much for Lee's tungsten ball press - think they forgot to do this mould - or something.

[northmn]

I can get minute of deer with my 58 using 90-100 grains of Swiss.  However I have not really taken it out and developed a real target load.  Like Daryl, I had a 58 Green River that wanted at least 140 grains of 2f for real precision.  One reason I sold it.  While I won a state shoot with a 58, I really do not consider them a target rifle as they eat lead and powder and can be harder to shoot accurately.  45's and 50's are very accurate at most reasonable distances and easier on the shoulder and pocket book.  I ususally sued 575 in my 58's.

DP

[Harnic]

As Daryl suggests, the slow twist of this new Rice barrel will undoubtedly require a heavier charge of powder which is why I planned on a starting load of 90 grs..  I have several thicknesses of patch material up to some .030 canvas duck, so something in there will give a nice fit with the .571"ø balls the Lyman mould throws.  Unlike Daryl's Lee mould, the Lyman throws perfectly round balls.  My GM 50 cal barrel never shot as well as I'd hoped so it was more of a waste of lead, powder, & flint than a quality larger bore will be.  The 50 was too heavy as well.  Lead I have lots of & don't have trouble getting more & if powder becomes scarce or too expensive I'll just go back to making my own again.  When I played with it in the '80s I found a formula that was an equal to GOEX.  A bit time consuming & some contend, dangerous, but worth the effort.  I'll start work on fitting the new barrel next week & by the time all the damage is healed in 3 or 4 weeks, I should be able to start experimenting!   Spring will be here too, a definite plus for a skinny old @$#%!    

[Harnic]

Daryl, you have a p/m.