Homemade "Moose Milk"

[Scout]

I read this article by Harold V. Schoultz about a "wet" patch/ barrel swab during shooting formula he has used for years.

He makes certain in his article that he DOES NOT use this as a barrel preservative due to the water content.

I used hydrogen peroxide and water to clean my Enfield rifle musket when I was in to the CW reenacting with no ill effects but I'm kind if "gunshy" putting it in my recently accuired Southern longrifle.


20 parts distilled water
1 part Pinesol or Lestoil
2 parts Hydrogen peroxide 3% solution
1 part soluble oil
2 parts alcohol in winter to prevent freezing

Anyone ever seen this or ever used this mix?

I went and got all the items and mixed some up to try.

I will be trying it out this weekend weather permitting ( North Florida, sunny one minute, storms the next............)

[Daryl]

There is no need to wipe the bore with anything while shooting, let alone potentially.

Why is it that some people try to sell others on the suggestion that black powder needs more than just water for a solvent?  I mean - it doesn't even need soap - just plain tap water - and COLD water at that.

Now, the water and alcohol used as a patch lube for pre-cut patches while shooting a winter trail walk is just fine.

Holland and Holland, gun maker of world wide known excellence, since the mid 1800's at least - this high-end English Gun Maker, the Kings' Armorer and Gun Maker, made guns, shotguns, single shot rifles, repeating rifles and double rifles throughout the hayday of black powder shooting, still making guns today - will even make you a new rifle for black powder or smokeless powder, but in ctg. form, for about $150,000.00 if you don't want a fancy rifle, says straight cold tap water is what is best for cleaning their VERY expensive and valuable muzzleloading and breechloading black powder firearms.  They've sold you a legacy in a firearm and want you to take the best care of it possible - they tell you to clean it with the best 'solution' there is to preserve this work of art - they tell you to use ordinary tap water, not distilled water or distilled water with chemicals added to it- just ordinary tap water.  It's been working perfectly -  for well over 150 yards for them and even longer for others, why change now?

I wrote considerbly more, but his will suffice.

The Scheutzen shooters of the late 1800's and 1900's had a bucket of water, with a slotted rod with patch sitting in it. It was for wiping the bores of their bullet shooting black powder ctg. guns that needed wiping, between shots due to fouling problems with ctg. guns - an old problem that dated into the muzzleoading theatre of the mid 1800's.  There was no patch to wipe the bore clean, as you loaded it for successive shots.

 A round ball muzzleloader, expecially a hunting-type muzzleoader does not need wiping during shooting to maintain accuracy.  Many bullet shooting muzzleoloaders don't either, but require specially designed lubricants.  There are many people on this site who never have to wipe their bores while shooting - the 60th shot loads as esily as the first nothing but water - in the interest of making this sport as enjoyable as possible, the info is free - of course - nothing to buy.  To- - a bonus, is that these shooters are probably the best, most experienced and most accurate shooters here.

[axelp]

I do not wipe between shots-- my gun bore that is.

I hardly ever shoot more than 30 shots in a session of target shooting, but I am not much of a target shooter.

If I tried to be out at the range longer than that, my wife would hunt me down with dawgs and a hatchet... I got chores to do!!!

K

[Roger Fisher]

I do not wipe between shots-- my gun bore that is.

I hardly ever shoot more than 30 shots in a session of target shooting, but I am not much of a target shooter.

If I tried to be out at the range longer than that, my wife would hunt me down with dawgs and a hatchet... I got chores to do!!!

K

Something I learned after 60 yrs with the same female.  Start earlier

[axelp]

I suddenly find myself afraid to ask for clarification.

K

[Bill of the 45th]

Most people I know and shoot with the haven't used Hydrogen Peroxide in ages.  It's much easier, and cheaper to just use windshield washer fluid.  since you are in Florida you might add some alcohol to improve it since the stuff your stuff is lacking unlike up north.

Bill

[Al Lapp]

I find that a lot of people think that if it's cheap it can't work, and more expensive or harder to make is always better.     Al

[willyr]

Amen to that, Al. If it's free water, it can't work as well as this "moose Juice" I paid money for. If it's Olive oil that my wife buys by the gallon and I can snitch what I need, It can't possibly work as good as this "Mink oil" I had to buy.

[Daryl]

Bill = little secret here- in 2 of my guns I did a comparrison with, Track's Mink Oil was more accurate than Olive Oil, and it shot more cleanly too.  This is not to say the free Olive Oil doesn't shoot better or as well in your rifles.  It's called experimentation - without testing, we just don't know.

[willyr]

Daryl - I use olive oil as a patch lube only when loading for hunting. I prelube the patches with olive oil and  pat them down with paper towels so that they are slightly oily but not dripping wet. My patch lube for just shooting is water with a little soap added. When I'm thru shooting, I clean with my patch lube and once the barrel is clean and dry, I use olive oil as a protective. Never any after rust-NEVER. of course, I get the same results when using WD-40- no after rust. Hmmm, I must be cleaning out all the powder residue and drying the water from the barrel- this ain't rocket science.
      But, what do I know/ I'm the guy who actually uses the patchbox on my rifle to store............. PATCHES.
Be Well

[axelp]

I like cheap.

I use spit when target shooting and when hunting I use olive oil (or bear oil when I have it)/beeswax mixture. I have a tin of TOW mink oil and it works good too--maybe better, but again, I am cheap.

K

[ottawa]

patches in a patch box I thought those things were for your candy bar

[Scout]

Amen to that, Al. If it's free water, it can't work as well as this "moose Juice" I paid money for. If it's Olive oil that my wife buys by the gallon and I can snitch what I need, It can't possibly work as good as this "Mink oil" I had to buy.

I or no one posted that " free water" would not work as well as the "moose juice" I paid money to experiment with.
My question was "Anyone ever seen this or ever used this mix"?
No more, no less.

I tried the olive oil formula that I was advised to use with poor results. I made the formula , saturated the strip of ticking and layed it on a flat surface to dry evenly to insure even distribution of the fluid ( to make sure all of the oil, ingredients didn't end up all on one end.)
3rd shot was a bear to seat, so much for that one.

Bore butter worked better IMO, so I thought I'd give this a "shot" .

Plus it gives me an excuse to spend time in the old gun shop in my back yard. 

[Roger Fisher]

I used to mix this up yrs ago with donated water soluble machinist's oil (from a friendly machine shop).  I don't recall why I went back to plain spit. Lazy and cheap probably.  I don't recall the peroxide causing me any problems; but I do recall wiping it back out quick like.  Spit to shoot (on patching) spit to field clean and water at home  finish cleaning.

[T*O*F]

My question was "Anyone ever seen this or ever used this mix"?

My answer is no.  To my knowledge, moose milk comes from a cow moose's teat.  You can't make it at home unless you've got a moose ranch.

[camerl2009]

i use soluble oil and water for my martini henry

[camerl2009]

My question was "Anyone ever seen this or ever used this mix"?

My answer is no.  To my knowledge, moose milk comes from a cow moose's teat.  You can't make it at home unless you've got a moose ranch.

or if you live here in canada lol

[Leatherbelly]

Every time I get half a bucket full, the cow kicks it over,dang!

[Daryl]

My question was "Anyone ever seen this or ever used this mix"?
No more, no less.

I tried the olive oil formula that I was advised to use with poor results. I made the formula , saturated the strip of ticking and layed it on a flat surface to dry evenly to insure even distribution of the fluid ( to make sure all of the oil, ingredients didn't end up all on one end.)
3rd shot was a bear to seat, so much for that one.

Bore butter worked better IMO, so I thought I'd give this a "shot" .

Plus it gives me an excuse to spend time in the old gun shop in my back yard.  

You are right - we sidetracked - sorry.  No - I've never used that formula - the reasons have already been posted.

To address the new 'problem' of a patch lube that is easy to apply, and shoots cleanly and accurately and is easy to load:

With a smoothed crown, (smoothed the machined edges or corners) you can load a ball and patch combination that it doesn't matter what you use for lube - plain water, spit, moose milk, Dutch's stuff, mink oil, Neetsfoot oil, Bear's oil, Marmot Oil - doesn't matter - the 40th shot goers downas easily as the first and the bore does not hold nor build up fouling. Straight Olive oil did not work for me.  Animal oil or grease was better - straight water or spit was better. A patch MUST be wet to shoot consistantly, shot after shot, no wiping.  Water-based 'lubes' give better consistancy shot to shot than oil based lubes. Oil based lubes usually require more powder to shoot accurately,due to their slippery-than-water nature. In this reqpect, they make a normally good water-based gun, shoot as if it has gone 'slick'.

Oil or grease are necesary for hunting. Lube should stay relatively soft druing freezing weather or poi will shift.

 The ease of the ball's departure (with oil or grease) does not allow the powder to get burning properly and more powder is then required to get the pressure up to burn more consistantly - pehraps this is in error - I don't think so.  In every gun I've owned, the use of grease or oil makes the gun demand more powder.  Too- the use of an oil or grease for lube more than doubles the shot to shot velocity variations - unles those charges are increased.  With the increase in speed, comes a reduction in trajectory - both are plusses for a hunting load.

A dry patch is not a patch that will allow shooting without having to wipe at some point. Having to wipe means that the bore is changing shot to shot - in ML shooting, consistancy is necessary for accuracy. A bore that is changing in fouing retention is not consistant shot to shot.  

Loading as many of us here do, the bore does not pick up fouling and build it shot to shot.  A Quote from Robert's 1934 book is in order."Ven you loads der next, you cleans der last" - or something like that.

That "cleaning the last" cannot happen unless you are using a snug combination with a wet lube. You probably cannot EASILY load the requisite snug combination unless you smooth the corners of the machine cuts of your muzzle's crown.  It's simple - anyone who has a thumb and 320 grit- emery, or wet/dry paper, can do it.

[Paddlefoot]

In the dark ages ('70s) there were a number of folks around here that used Crisco. Anyone still doing that?

[Scout]

I tried it out Saturday morning. I only shot 18 rounds but I never had to clean between shots. At 25 yards they all grouped at about 5" offhand. I can do better, I still have to get used to the rifle. As most of you know and I'm finding out , flintlock rifle shooting is "a bit" different than my M14 !

After I got home it was slightly easier to clean up and just a bit less dirty than when I used other  types of patch lube.

Next stop.................................plain jane water patch. 

Also on the experimental list:

1.beeswax/lanolin ( 50% each mixed )
2.Borebutter/ Wonderlube 1000
3.Real bear grease

[Pete G.]

I mix Ballistol with water at about a 1:5 ratio. Looks like moose milk and shoots clean enough to not require cleaning between shots. I don't think adding that other stuff would help anything.

[longcruise]

In the dark ages ('70s) there were a number of folks around here that used Crisco. Anyone still doing that?

I used crisco exclusively for quite a few years.  I always wiped between shots when using it.  It leaves a lot of fouling in the bore, but does not matter if wiping between shots.  Also have used it at about 1:10 beeswax and crisco.  For a cheap grease lube it fits the bill.  Kinda messy to handle though.

[roamer]

Man, i have rifles from  36 to 50 and numbers in between in various ages. but still have to spit swab between most rounds.The pre lubed patches I use are OX -YOKE.man I'm vexed

[Don Getz]

I always thought that moose milk was nothing more than water soluable oil and water, mixed about 20 parts of water
to 1 part of oil.   We use as a coolant in our milling machines.    It's white and looks like milk but has mostly that magical
ingredient for cleaning a muzzleloader.....water.    I don't recommend anything with hydrogen peroxide in it............Don