Wheellock v.s flintlock

[vegard_dino]

Hello all.

Well, here comes more questions, thanks for helping

I am seeking around for my first muzzleloader and have put my eyes on the Jaeger style.

So, did look at a old wheellock rifle the other day, nice.
But, how is the wheellock compared to a more modern flintlock?

I guess more complicated to make, from the look of it. Also, there seems to be made more flintlock guns than wheellock guns.

All information is good and helpful.

[Larry Pletcher]

The link below will show a video of an original Manton flintlock followed be a recently made wheel lock.  These and others were filmed at Friendship on 2007.  This was done with a high speed video cam at 5000 fps.  The result is Very slow motion.  Note, we put a mark on the wheel of the lock so we could see the rotation.  You can see the Rotation stop against the spring and rebound maybe 120 degrees. 

Wheel locks are reputed to be faster than flintlocks, however counting frames on other playback systems show that this is an illusion.  IMHO the illusion comes from the fact that there is no moving part easy to see as the lock works.  In some locks the wheel is shielded.  At any rate, the lock just seems to ignite.  Slow motion shows there is, indeed activity going on.  They are complex and I think very cool.


http://www.blackpowdermag.com/featured-articles/slow-motion-at-gun-makers-hall.php

Regards,
Pletch

[vegard_dino]

Hi and thanks for the link and information.
Are a wheel lock as solid as a flintlock? They look so cool, but at the same time more fragile. Or just my eyes?

[Don Getz]

Wheellocks are kind of unique, but, from what I have heard they are a complicated piece of equipment, as compared to
a flint lock.   They are expensive and difficult to make, and have a tendency to get "dirty" rather quickly, which hinders
their operation.   It was just another one of those locks that was developed in an effort to make something that was better, however, apparently it did not go over too well since we do not see many of them.   If you were thinking of making one for a rifle, it will require a lot of work, and in the end it will get looked at a lot, but will not be extremely useful.....................Don

[Larry Pletcher]

Taylor Sapergia, on this forum built a very neat wheel lock pistol.  Maybe he will post a photo.

I'm told that one drawback with wheel locks is the problem getting high quality pyrite.  I had a chancee to fire the wheel lock that was in the video at Friendship.  To the shooter it seemed the equivalent of a flintlock. 

Regards,
Pletch

[vegard_dino]

Thanks for helping me, great information here.
Yes, it had to be something that made the wheellock get more in the back ground, and for the flintlock to come and take over.
Maybe to expensive and not giving me anything when it comes to use friendliness.

[Kermit]

I think I read somewhere that the flintlock was developed because the wheel lock needed the skills of a watch/clock maker to produce (expensively), but a flintlock could be made by a good blacksmith--and was repairable by the same set of skills. I expect clockmakers were thin on the ground in the colonies.

They are cool.

[vegard_dino]

Hello
Thanks for the reply

Yes, I have read the same. Makes sense to, looking at the wheellock, it is NOT an easy lock to make and service/repair. But, they are cool

[Feltwad]

There is very little difference in ignition between a wheellock and a flintlock providing the wheel is kept clean The most common fault with a wheellock is the fouling from the pan which drops between the wheel and the lock face  this slows down the rotation of the wheel and also affects the speed of ignition. The ignition of the wheellock is the opposite of a flintlock, where has the ignition of a flintlock is the shearing of red hot particles of steel from the frizzen face the wheellock creates the sparks from the pyrites stone .A flint can cause ignition but I have found that pyrites is the best only fault with this stone it soon crumbles .I have used with some success  the commercial made flint used with the industrial gas torch  when I had difficult in obtaining pyrites I shoot both the wheellock rifle and the pistols enclosed are a couple of images of a 50 cal rifle I built in the 1970s this rifle has the German paddle stock with a few of my own ideas thrown in.
Feltwad

[Feltwad]

Enclosed are another two images of a wheellock pistol.
Feltwad



Shooting the wheellock pistol

[vegard_dino]

Thanks for the reply and photos. That pistol looks great. What cal.?
You made it?
Well, now I understand a bit more about the wheellock and why it is not so popular today. Sad, it is a masterpiece of  craftsmanship. But, at the same time, not easy to live with. Same as a super model......

Thanks for helping me with my odd questions.

[Feltwad]

The wheellock pistol is 45 calibre built in the 1970s from a Mendi kit
Feltwad

[vegard_dino]

Thanks.
Looks great

[blunderbuss]

I made a wheelock, the kind one rest against ones cheek. When I took it to the range I was afraid to press it close ,so just held it gently. The groups were large even at 25 yards,and I reasoned that the Germans didn't use the cheek gun for 200 odd years for groups like that so I pressed it more firmly,and the groups tightened to some respectable groups to 50 yards.The time delay was as fast as a percussion,with no forward hammer inertia as a flintlock or percussion. It didn't seem to miss fire as often as a flinter eather I guess due to the fact that the striking surface is greater . I learned to wipe the wheel as I wound it to get the fowling off the wheel as one would wipe a steel after shooting.
  I want to take it deer hunting and I like the fact that one can enter a deer stand or traverse a fence with out un priming one needs only to remove the dog forward and the weapon is safe.

[smart dog]

Hi Vegard-Dino,
Wheellocks came in many sizes and shapes.  Most of the folks shooting wheellocks today use the style illustrated by Feldwad.  It is probably of Dutch or German origin and was a common style in the 17th century, but there were many others.  I suspect their performance varied as much as the different styles of flintlocks.  That said, I believe the true (French) flintlock was a superior system.  I don't think ignition time mattered a @!*%.  It was reliability and serviceability, which the flintlock won hands down.  The proof of that pudding was that early colonists in America chose flintlocks over all else and the use of wheellocks and matchlocks in the New World was very short lived.  They were responding to the practical realities of living or dying by the use of their firearms.  The German states held on to the tradition of wheellocks (and cheek stocks) long after other countries abandoned them.  In controlled circumstances such as shooting matches and perhaps hunting for sport, wheellocks were a match for any other technology.  But under the circumstances in which you lived or died by your gun, the flintlock was far better.

dave     

[dannybb55]

I am a blacksmith and a lock is beyond my current skills with the tools available or that could be made in my shop. Easily made if you are EK or a journeyman in Williamsburg. Most American smiths were a rough and ready lot, more used to repairing farm implements than sculpture.
 The wheel locks developed where there were iron mines for pyrite and flint locks where there was access to chalk and flint.
 Fashion had a bit to do with it or we would all be shooting with Patilla and Snap locks that are much more robust and get more out of a flint.

[mjm46@bellsouth.net]

I would imagine that they would be slower to load, don't you have to wind the dang thing up?

[JCKelly]

I know this is heresay on this group, but why would one debate the practicality of one spark-making machine vs another? If you want something practical, I've heard from many sources that self-contained metallic cartridges have it all, with respect to reliability and wet weather performance.

But they are not as much fun.

Surely there can be nothing cooler than a wheel lock gun. Maybe hard to live with, but who cares?

I believe remains of at least one wheel lock have been found in Indian graves, and the nramuseum.com has an Italian wheel lock carbine said to have been brought over to Plymouth by John Alden. Guess he found it practical enough. One overwhelmingly Practical reason to prefer flintlocks is that they are much cheaper.

If you want a reliable source of sparks, under conditions where good pyrites or well-knapped flint are hard to come by, there are those who would suggest a miquelet lock, with that heavy mainspring & convenient means of clamping down on the stone.