gun stocks

[walt53]

I"ve been following the posts on the site for some time now, and every one speeks highly of the english musket style stock for recoil.

My question is what kinda hurt would you get from a hawken replacement stock that say (pecatonica river)or(tow) offer, say with a 54cal shooting  hunting loads or near max loads. 
thanks. walt

[Paddlefoot]

Depends how sensitive you are. .54 would have to be better than my .58 which will turn your arm a real pretty black and blue .

[Don Getz]

Walt......I always thought the Hawken had good architecture for a shooting rifle, however, that curved buttplate is what
causes the pain.    If it had a nice, fairly flat and broad buttplate like an early Kentucky, it would be a nice gun to shoot..................Don

[bgf]

If you just want to shoot it, do it the way you want.  I have read here about some Hawkens having a shotgun buttplate, but I don't know anything about them -- maybe someone will speak up.  If you could find even a couple of historical precedents, then it would be an easy choice, and simple to do.  I looked at the TOW specs., and the Hawkens TC replacement stock is 1.5" wide at the butt -- that might be enough to be comfortable with a different BP type.

[Roger Fisher]

Quite a few yrs ago I shot regular with a circuit shooteer here in E Penna. that was a deadly offhand shooter with his half stocked .45 (that he hauled to shoots with his M cycle. (that'l give some guys a reminder on who he was. )

For some reason he decided to start shooting a .58 and I should add he used what we call in these parts the "Buck hold"  stock on flat palm with hand reversed and butt out on upper arm.  He ended up with a classic (and large) goose egg or Ostrich egg on his arm and a $#*! of a flinch.  He left the game shortly after.  No clue what happened to his bike.

I always had a ball shooting with and against him and we all miss him he kept things lively.

[Daryl]

The English Musket - ie: Brown Bess has a horrid stock due to minimal drop and too short for most people today.

The very best stock for minimizing recoil of heavy loads and large bores, is the English Sporting Rifle- which reached it's ultimate in design in the mid 1800's to be copied into present day, through the realy big game hunting guns used in Africa.  That design was never met until the early to mid 1800's.

The German Jaeger design, carried somewhat into the early Pennsilvania rifles as Don noted, were also quite good.

Muskets of any nationality were poor to say the most for them - horrid is closer to the truth, in handling recoil.  They had wide butts, but that's the only good characteristic. The high comb and short pull worked against them all the way as to handling recoil well.

[Paddlefoot]

I would have to qualify what I posted  earlier. Be sure of what you want to use the gun for. If you are hunting, the Hawken in .54 would probably not be a bad deal. Shooting a few shots offhand won't damage you too much (unless you are already recoil sensitive). I shot my .58 in a couple matches and had a thoroughly miserable time though I did well in the match. Working up loads on the bench is decidedly miserable, though you can at least put a sandbag between the butt plate and your shoulder. If you are going to do a Hawken,  do it right and check in with Don Stith (a member here I believe) and build it with the right barrel and hardware configurations. He can probably advise you better than anyone on Hawkins.

[walt53]

DON. tow has one in their catalog  3rd one under buttplates-BP-SHOT-C-1 SHARPS STYLE BUTT.WOULD something like  that be what you had in mind.
thanks. walt

[Dphariss]

I"ve been following the posts on the site for some time now, and every one speeks highly of the english musket style stock for recoil.

My question is what kinda hurt would you get from a hawken replacement stock that say (pecatonica river)or(tow) offer, say with a 54cal shooting  hunting loads or near max loads. 
thanks. walt

Musket stocks leave a lot to be desired.
The Hawken buttplate is maxed out at 54. Especially the castings most suppliers sell.
54 needs no more than 100 grains of fff for velocity reasons and most shoot very well with 90-100. But one never knows until the shooting starts.
Daryl's comments on the English sporting rifle are true. The stock design in TOWs original Purdey plans is unbeatable for heavy recoil.
This is very similar.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i199/DPhariss/ML%20Guns/P1020561.jpg

Dan

[Don Getz]

Walt........sorry, I don't own a Track catalog.    The only thing that would bother me is to build a "Hawken" without their
standard buttplate, just seems that it wouldn't look right.  I have been toying with building a half stock, but in a small
calibre, kind of a squirrel gun...maybe, sometime, huh..............Don

[Daryl]

You're right, Don- the Kawken has a descent shape, but the butt is the shoulder-joint killer. It sits on the rotator cuff adn tears things up with heavy loads.

A .54 would be OK. I had an 11 1/2 pound (34" X 1 1/8" .58 KHawken) which needed 140gr. 2f to shoot reasonably well at longer ranges - ie: 100 yards and beyond.  In those days, I didn't shoot at close range like many people today.  That butt plate beat me up badly and I sold it.  Always lamented that I'd sold one of Taylor's rifles, but it had to go(at that time).

I agree with Dan - .54 is about tops in that style.  Here's one shooting 95gr. 2F as a target load. My late hunting buddy, Brad.


His Daughter, Jody shooting 'Mom's' full stocked Hawken .58 with 90gr. 2F - she does great with it, but, it certainly kicks a bit more than 'Dad's' .54 - notice the muzzle rise in comparrison.  The only difference is about a 50gr. heavier ball. The Full stock weighs more than Brad's 1/2 stock as well. Jody's hold will contribute a bit to elevation of the muzzle. Note sparks from the muzzle of the .58. No - it isn't powder burning out side the bore. It's red hot fouling chunks.

[northmn]

The early Hawkens had a wider more flat buttplate than the later ones.  They also used the trigger guard that was more flat against the wrist.  They would be a little less painful than the later mid 1800 buttplates.  Somewhere I saw a flier ta ht in the mid 1800's Hawkens were offered with a twist for bullets as well as a shotgun butt plate.  One also has to understand that the Hawken shop built some local rifles that were different than the plains rifle most associate with the Hawken name.  As stated, if one is to use the rifle for hunting or occasional casual shooting the crescent plate is not so bad. Continued shooting as in match shooting may not be so desirable.  The English rifle is a pleasure to shoot.  I have to finish mine but used it in the rough and found it quite pleasant.  I sold a Brown Bess that was beating the heck out of my cheek and bought parts and made a 12 ga smooth bore That fit.  If you look at fowlers of the time, they are built to shoot comfortably and have wider plates and a more reasonable comb.  I sold that 12 and wished I had it back.

DP

[walt53]

I would like to thank every for thier (very informative) and knowledeable
information as to answering my question.
 walt