Author Topic: long gun  (Read 7103 times)

Offline cmac

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long gun
« on: February 25, 2011, 11:56:13 PM »
I have a custom barrel ordered from Rayl. It is a 54" 54 caliber smoothbore octagon to round. I also have a Davis Colonial American flint lock. This is a flat faced lock. I am leaning toward a smooth rifle design for this project, but haven't figured the exact school I want. I like the early Virginia guns. However most of the ones I've seen seem to be Rev war or later and I would like to keep early enough for F&I war events. I have both books: Colonial Longrifles of America and the Flintlock fowlers book. Also I plan forge my mounts. Any pictures or references that might help me make a more accurate interpretation would be appreciated.

BrushCountryAg03

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Re: long gun (French & Indian War Virginia "Smooth Rifle")
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2015, 10:39:37 PM »
I AM IN THE SAME BOAT AND HAVE THE SAME IDENTICAL QUESTION!!!

What I've got:

 - 44" Octagonal-Round 10ga from Ed Rayl
 - Curly Maple Stock Blank

What I want:

 - French & Indian War era Virginia "Smooth Rifle"

Question:

Is an Octagonal-Round Barrel period correct?

LOCK:  "Germanic" or "English"?

 I AM HAVING A HARD TIME TRACKING DOWN AN ORIGINAL LIKE THIS.

Offline JDK

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Re: long gun
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2015, 10:51:59 PM »
Practically every rifle, smooth or otherwise, you see at a F&I war reenactment is purely based on conjecture or fantasy.

With the exception of military arms, there are few (if any) surviving examples from that period to know what is correct and what is not.

Best you can do is copy the earliest surviving longrifles.  In other words, it's easier to identify what's NOT correct than to KNOW what IS.

Enjoy, J.D.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2015, 10:52:56 PM by JDK »
J.D. Kerstetter

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: long gun
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2015, 10:52:08 PM »
Quote
Insert Quote
I have a custom barrel ordered from Rayl. It is a 54" 54 caliber smoothbore octagon to round. I also have a Davis Colonial American flint lock. This is a flat faced lock. I am leaning toward a smooth rifle design for this project, but haven't figured the exact school I want. I like the early Virginia guns. However most of the ones I've seen seem to be Rev war or later and I would like to keep early enough for F&I war events. I have both books: Colonial Longrifles of America and the Flintlock fowlers book. Also I plan forge my mounts. Any pictures or references that might help me make a more accurate interpretation would be appreciated.
What you need is one of Kent Smith's pattern's. Don Bruton originally made them for a southern smooth rifle/fowler. Curt Lyles bought them and had a few pattern's made from them then sold them to Kent. Kent's a member here so send him a PM and see if he has photos. I think I might have a photo somewhere. If I find it I will send it to you.
Dennis
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: long gun
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2015, 10:58:28 PM »
I think one of the pattern's was used on the rifle on pg 12 of Curt's website http://www.cdlyles.com/ .
Curt might have a stock or two left so you might check with him.
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson

BrushCountryAg03

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Re: long gun
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2015, 10:58:47 PM »
Practically every rifle, smooth or otherwise, you see at a F&I war reenactment is purely based on conjecture or fantasy.

With the exception of military arms, there are few (if any) surviving examples from that period to know what is correct and what is not.

Best you can do is copy the earliest surviving longrifles.  In other words, it's easier to identify what's NOT correct than to KNOW what IS.

Enjoy, J.D.

"  In other words, it's easier to identify what's NOT correct than to KNOW what IS.

I 100% agree.

BrushCountryAg03

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Re: long gun
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2015, 11:17:42 PM »
Thank you Mr. Glazener,  I appreciate the help.  I will be looking into it.

BrushCountryAg03

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Re: long gun
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2015, 11:29:26 PM »
Not that it's necessary but I wanted to clarify how I got to this point:

I originally wanted to build a New England Fowler, bought the Curly Maple blank, and ordered a the barrel from Rayl.  But over the past year while waiting on it, I came across a "Virginia Smooth Rifle" here:

http://www.lowellhaarer.com/fowler-d.html

AND HAVE BEEN IN LOVE EVER SINCE.

HOWEVER...........This is the one that I really want to build:

http://www.lowellhaarer.com/fowler-b.html

I can change everything else  to a 1750's appearance but, "WILL MY BARREL WORK" is the question...




kaintuck

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Re: long gun
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2015, 12:09:32 AM »
 :o
a 4 1/2' RR and stock will be hard to find!....would love to see this build in progress!

talk about your 'over-the-log' rifle!!!!!!

marc n tomtom

Offline Rich

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Re: long gun
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2015, 12:13:39 AM »
Take a look at the last rifle by "maker unknown" in the Morovian book the KRA put out. It's a Carolina smoothbore rifle. I was considering one along those lines but with a wood patchbox.

BrushCountryAg03

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Re: long gun
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2015, 12:19:56 AM »
:o
a 4 1/2' RR and stock will be hard to find!....would love to see this build in progress!

talk about your 'over-the-log' rifle!!!!!!

marc n



Yes Sir, it's a pretty hefty chunk of wood.  Ryan @ Muzzleloader Builders Supply was able to get me one without a hitch.

Offline cmac

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Re: long gun
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2015, 09:22:42 PM »
Wow! Surprised to see this post come back up. I've been too busy with builds for others to tackle my own. I have the parts sitting ready for a NE fowler. What I've got- 54" 54 cal. Netting barrel that I milled two side flats on, probably use Chamber's Colonial lock but maybe the early Ketland, brass mounts I plan on making (other than the trigger guard), and a plain maple stock. I have an original butt plate that is very this and actually wore in two. I want to copy this and make a thicker one. I couldn't find a precast that I liked. I'm in the middle of a southern mountain build and hopefully this is next!

If you've ever had the chance to hold one of these long fowlers they are not near as heavy as you'd think and balance great
« Last Edit: April 10, 2015, 09:27:40 PM by cmac »

kaintuck

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Re: long gun
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2015, 12:01:23 AM »
miniature 'punt gun'........... ;D

marc n tomtom

Offline Virginiarifleman

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Re: long gun
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2015, 06:53:26 PM »
Go to Mr. Jim Chambers Web site. go to Guns page 3 bottom picture shows a Necomer smooth Rifle period 1760.

Offline rich pierce

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Re: long gun
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2015, 09:11:26 PM »
I have a custom barrel ordered from Rayl. It is a 54" 54 caliber smoothbore octagon to round. I also have a Davis Colonial American flint lock. This is a flat faced lock. I am leaning toward a smooth rifle design for this project, but haven't figured the exact school I want. I like the early Virginia guns. However most of the ones I've seen seem to be Rev war or later and I would like to keep early enough for F&I war events. I have both books: Colonial Longrifles of America and the Flintlock fowlers book. Also I plan forge my mounts. Any pictures or references that might help me make a more accurate interpretation would be appreciated.

If you want to base your early Virginia gun with forged iron mounts on originals, you have just a couple options I know of.  Wallace Gusler wrote a couple articles in Muzzle Blasts about the "Old Holston Gun" and related pieces.  These were "black rifles" stocked in walnut with forged iron mounts and dating to around the Relutionary War and slightly later.  I have seen guns patterned after the Old Holston Rifle by Ian Pratt and maybe Marc Tornichio.  

Smooth rifles seem to be predominantly a product of Pennsylvania and even there, to have been made in certain areas in greater numbers than others. It s hard to find an actual Bucks County original with a rifled barrel, for example, and Northhampton  and Lehigh originals are often smoothbores.  If you are looking for a Revolutionary War era or earlier Virginia smooth rifle or even fowling piece stocked in curly maple, and having forged iron mounts, you will likely find little to go on.  Folks thought the Newcomer smoothie was Southern because it was in an English style, but Newcomer was a Lancaster PA gunsmith.

Nothing wrong with fantasy guns and I like many of the iron mounted, "back-dated" contemporary rifles, smoothbores and smooth rifles that are being made now.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2015, 09:13:39 PM by rich pierce »
Andover, Vermont

Offline Dennis Glazener

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Re: Interesting architecture revelation
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2015, 09:33:35 PM »
Cmac you might be interested in this post http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=1583.0
"I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend" - Thomas Jefferson