hunting with a flinter

[long carabine]

 I hunted ass day Sat with the same priming powder 4f in the pan. The gun went off at the end of the day with no  problems

[Daryl]

In wet climates, one must look to his priming and it's waterproofing. A thin ring of Vaseline around the pan after priming helps. There are other 'incredients' that work too.  Alox or other modern bullet lubes works perhaps better than vaseline as they don't run and stay where you put them.

[R. Hare]

Daryl,

I know you weren't suggesting using pyrodex in the pan, but it brought to mind my pal's comment, and it always seemed so funny (Burns like a garden fire!) that I thought i'd share it!

All the best,

Richard.

[Daryl]

Richard - I figured that.  I tried to get a charge of black-mag 3 to go off for the main charge. That was fun - not! Then I tried to ignite a charge of BP using pistol Pyrodex for the pan charge, just for fun.  That's when I found my lock would ignite pyro in the pan, but the main charge didn't 'manifest itself' until I re-primed with 4F. Sometimes it's fun to play around and see the problems first hand that some people have when entering this sport.  Although Black Mag 3 looks like beach sand, it actually burns quite well - in BP ctg. guns. It's granuals are much harder than pyrodex, but still compresses nicely and actually shoots well, giving descent speeds and accuracy.

[close enough]

The only time I have problems with moisture is if the pan is not clean from a previous shot (shooting at the range).  If the pan is clean, I have never had any problem (not counting rain) with moisture forming in the pan:  I use 4F.  But I won't argue with someone that wants to use 3F.

Brian

[Kopfjaeger]

I've used both 3f and 4f.

[heelerau]

I use FFFg as both main and priming in my .40 Lancaster firelock. Infact my rifle mostly self primes. On a damp day I will wipe the pan with a bit of dry cloth before priming separatly if necessary.

Cheers

Gordon

[alsask]

I use FFFF in the pan with no problem.  If I am concerned with humidity/snow ect. I run a smear of chapstick on the bottom of the frizzen where it would touch the pan.

[buffalo]

Good morning,i use the same powder in the pan as i put down the barrel,last year it started to drizzle one nite,,my hand over the lock did not work,but the silver foil from a large chocolate bar made a good cows knee,plus a refreshing of pan powder,now i have an excuse for the doz, bars in my possible,s bag

[blunderbuss]

years ago I bought a product called "Dry Powder' it's a fine silicon powder that absorbs moisture it works. I just mixed it with my priming powder

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

When I first got into shooting and hunting with a muzzle loading rifle, it was a T/C "Hawken" .50 calibre in flint ignition.  At the time, 1971 - 74, I lived on the Queen Charlotte Islands off the coast of British Columbia, where the weather is never dry, even with the sun shining.  The only powder I could get then, was Meteor brand Fg, and it was what we'd call cannon grade today.  I used 70 grains of the gravel for the charge, and some in the pan, and it went off just fine.  I killed a lot of coastal blacktails with that rifle, when there was no bag limit, and no closed season.  I have a photograph of me shooting the rifle, taken by the other constable and his new Hasselblad camera.

[hanshi]

A few days ago found me out after turkeys.  It was a foggy, drippy, wet day and I had primed with 4F.  When I called it quits and went back to my truck, the prime was still powder dry.  I've been out in light rain with the same results.  Don't know about heavy rain as I sleep in on those days.

[FRJ]

I can most certainly see the difference between 4f and 3f in my pan. The 4f is appreciably faster. I carry a very small tool thats made of brass that dispenses just enough to prime my pan. it measures about 3" by 1/2" and will fit in any pocket or     on a lanyard. Its no problem at all. FRJ

[Daryl]

For us, humidity is usually low, but we can and do hit 90 to 100% humidity while shooting sometimes.  Until that first shot is taken, the prime seems to stay dry, even in a rain.  As Hanshi noted above. Of course, a poor fit of the frizzen will also water to flow into the pan, I'd guess.

It's after the first shot, that the fouling then gathers moisture, which then wets the powder in the pan to form a slurry, not the powder's fault, as I see it.

[wmrike]

How can 4F not absorb moisture more quickly than coarser powders since its surface area:volume ratio is so much greater?  After all, that's the very reason it lights faster.

[Dphariss]

How can 4F not absorb moisture more quickly than coarser powders since its surface area:volume ratio is so much greater?  After all, that's the very reason it lights faster.

Because good powder does not suck up excess water from the air.
Its a CHEMICAL thing.
Put a small amount in a shallow pan or saucer.
Use one for each granulation.
Put in a place like a covered porch where no LIQUID water, rain, dew etc can get at the powder.
Leave overnight when the humidity is high.
Did the FFFF liquify?
If the powder passes this test then it should be OK in a FL pan that is KEPT DRY and is CLEAN.
Believe it or not we have high humidity in MT.
Like when hunting is a creek bottom with thick brush covered with wet snow temp about 33-38f.
I stalked through this:

For about 45 minutes, shot 2 deer and only used my hand the keep wet off the pan, no time for a cover of any kind. I think I reprimed once when some snow got on the barrel behind the rear sight and instantly turned to water. This with Swiss Null B which is finer than FFFF but is still a polished powder, but no graphite, just polished during the final drying process.
I did finally get the lock wet while collecting the deer. But my tags were both used and the Blackfeet no longer bother people in Southern MT and besides I had a FL pistol 

I still feel that if the FFFF is turning to goo there is problem with the powder or moisture is condensing on the metal somehow.
Do the open pan test.
If the stuff sucks up moisture to that extent then why does it still flow from a horn?

Dan

[Daryl]

Brings to mind the much written about "fact" that graphite has a water-proofing or water resisting effect on powder.

  According to Paul Mathews in "The Paper Jacket" in his tests with paper patched bullets, the graphited paper absorbed moisture just as fast as non-graphited paper.  He says, the graphite noted by buffalo hunters for water proofing, was not for water proofing but merely for adding a lubricant.  This is simply another test for anyone wanted to do it.

This post about the graphited paper was merely to show that possibly, graphiting is not a water proofer at all.

[hanshi]

Of course, a poor fit of the frizzen will also water to flow into the pan, I'd guess.



This is why I'm leery of with locks with "water proof" pan covers.  None of my locks has one and the pan covers seal very nicely.

[Bob Roller]

The so called"water proof" locks all are subject to the same attack and that is the ONE  drop of rain that will run off of the 45 degree flat that is by the frizzen's junction with the verticle area of the touch hole. Some times,a speck of beeswax between the frizzen and the barrel can help but in and of itself,these "Water proof" locks are mostly just nice to look at.

Bob Roller

[smylee grouch]

Alot of others have mentioned some type of pan sealer, chapstik,etc. and I have been using the stuff for 30+ years(my own concoction). Bees wax and rendered deer tallow to the consistency of peanut butter. Around the bottom of the frizzen and against the pan/frizzen/barrel area. I use 4f and have never had a problem even when I hunt in wet weather, which I do alot. Sometimes its not very comfortable hunting in those conditions but I know the game is out there and thats why we do what we do, whatever to keep hunting with the flintlock.  Smylee

[Dphariss]

Graphite is added to prevent clumping and to make the powder flow better. Historically graphite (black lead) was the hallmark of low quality powder. Any waterproofing would be minimal.
It allows a polished look without going to the trouble of actually polishing the powder properly.
Swiss, for example, will sometimes lightly clump in the bottle. But a light shake will break the clumps. Its not graphited but is properly polished.
But graphite coated powder became the norm in NA in the 20th century.
Dan

[Dphariss]

Of course, a poor fit of the frizzen will also water to flow into the pan, I'd guess.



This is why I'm leery of with locks with "water proof" pan covers.  None of my locks has one and the pan covers seal very nicely.

I can take the Manton design lock off the rifle, prime, close the frizzen put my thumb over the barrel side opening and dip it in a bucket of water. The prime will stay dry, the fit is that tight. However, the lock will not "fire" if the flint and frizzen are too wet. No spark. So the waterproof pan is something of  moot point if the water on the frizzen face kills the spark.
Any good fit will likely do this. But non-waterproof pans will hold a lot more water around the pan cover.

Unless its just competely impractical as in my post above, I ALWAYS use a full length cover when in the snow or rain.
Nothing else works. Coat it with snow seal if leather. A tight weave wool cover works very well in cold weather. But will pass water if its raining very hard or for a long time


Dan

[Daryl]

I once attempted a shot at a snowshoe bunny with a .75 Bess that had a layer of snow on the frizzen - no sparks, no flame, no ignition - of course.

[bob in the woods]

I have a "cow's Knee" cover that is tied to the back of my pouch, so it is always handy if the weather turns bad. It keeps the lock area dry, and removes in a second.

[Ezra]

I shoot 3f and use the same thing in the pan when hunting. No problems.

Same here.


Ez