Low and Left fliers from benchrest?

[Skychief]

Shot all afternoon at 50 yards from a benchrest.   Support behind the entry pipe only (half-stock rifle).   All of my "fliers" were low and left a few inches from my true POI.

How do you diagnose low and let shots from the bench as described above?

Thanks for your thoughts, Skychief.

PS...all patches looked fine.  Also, I am right-handed.

[longcruise]

Low left is usually a "push" by the shooter.  Often in anticipation of the recoil.  One way to get better groups from the bench is to rest the rifle on the barrel just a few inches behind the muzzle.

[Paddlefoot]

The push is as bad as a flinch. Sometimes you can get past this by using a sandbag or pad between the butt and your shoulder.

[Tom Cooper]

Your technique from the bench is very important, the hold and posture must be exactly the same for each shot.

My bench style emulates my off-hand style very closely, while shooting off-hand my support hand is palm up with the heel of the hand back against the bow of the trigger guard, index finger running along the bottom of the fore arm, other fingers and thumb left to their own devices but not touching the rifle, this hand is only a platform, I do not grip the rifle with it.

The thumb of my trigger hand lays along the top of the wrist, it does not wrap over to the off side.

From the bench it is the same, front support is positioned where my support hand would be, this creates repeatable " free recoil " of the rifle and is a very accurate representation of my off-hand style.

I shoot flint rifle.

[Don Getz]

When shooting off a bench, I prefer to hold the gun in a normal manner and rest the back of my forward hand on a sand
bag to steady the gun.    After all, you are just trying to eliminate all the wobble that you get from shooting offhand........
Don

[Daryl]

If shooting for group & impact with hunting loads, I hold exactly as Don does, gripping the gun's stock as in offhand shooting (left hand at the entry pipe) fingers gripping up alongside the barrel or barrels, and resting the back of tht hand on the front bag. I don't like a rear bag with a ML and find it doens't seem to help.

 A rear bag is best used imho, for a dedicated bench position, were the off hand, the left hand (right handed shooter) reaches backand under the stock and grips the bag just below where the stock engages the shoulder. Squeezing and relaxing the grip on this rear bag raises and lowers the rear of the rifle which in turn gives very small elevation changes. The forend is resting alone on the front bag at the position that gives the best accuracy, no where else. The best positon is found through shooting.

The best position is the postion that eliminates all 'flyers' and gives consistancy for you.  This is the postion that should also show the smallest groups. Some guns give this by resting as Mike noted, just behind the muzzle, while others require to be rested farther back. My .40 prefers to be rested at the second pipe for chunk shooting and the next time I bench her, I'll start there before moving back to the entry pipe where I usually rest it.

Rest shooting with free recoil, without holding, will usually give up to 2" of elevation at 50 yards. There usually isn't a windage change - but possibly could be.  I'd be looking rather at form - mine - feet flat on the ground, proper height, not strained, not pushing into the gun, rest, without steering. Many left and right shots are caused with low and high velocity rifles is caused by the cheek steering the gun into being lined up.  Between the cheek and the right hand steering shots abroad, more lost shots left and right - fliers if you want to use that name, occur.

Beware the position and check it when 'fiers' occur. It's probably something you did.  Between form and accuracy, many complications are present for lack of a better way of saying this - ball, patch, powder charge - then there's the method of securely holding or not holding the gun on bags, then your form at the bench -solid and square.  All of these 'conditions' effect how the gun shoots with fliers and all and finding what caused exactly what, can cause hair loss.   
For those who don't know me, I look much like the smiley, except I have ears. 

[Maven]

Skychief, The direction of sunlight on your front sight can also change where your shots impact.  Wind speed & direction are also to be considered, especially with relatively slow RB's ( but you already know this):  Are you using a wind flag (a 1/2" dowel with surveyor's tape works for me)?  Lastly, sometimes where you rest the gun on the bags affects where it shoots.

[Jerry V Lape]

One method to determine whether you are flinching or bucking (what I learned to call the push) is to have someone else load the rifle, slipping in an empty bore  once is a while to see what you do with it.  If you are flinching or bucking that will become very apparent to you the first time it happens on an empty bore. 

[longcruise]

Yes, the "push" is an involuntary response to anticipation of the recoil.

BTW, my suggestion to rest the rifle near the muzzle is purely for group testing.  Don and Daryl both suggested better methods of using the bench to test an off hand sight in or to set uo for a POI that will be the same as off hand holding.

[Skychief]

Thanks for all the great help guys!

In retrospect, I started out with my blanket-covered log (which sat on the bench) a little lower than I like.   In my haste, I went ahead and started shooting.   I think you guys are right about a "push" though I tried to avoid it.


I was shooting a little halfstock .45.   I have benched bigger guns including a 6 pound 12 gauge with prb's and never had this occur.   Even the little .45 was wearing on me abit with the too-low log and that's when I started getting the "low/lefts" (later in the day).

Again, I sure thank you guys for your thoughts!

Skychief.

[Daryl]

If your bench and rests are low, you bring your collar bone into contact with the butt plate. That will 'wear' on your very quickly.

[longcruise]

Those sharp toed plains rifle butt plates have taught me to set up differently to bench an ML.

I build a tall front support as well as a tallish in the rear.  Then, another stack of bags goes out to the far right to hold the right elbow at about 90 degrees.   This gives you an upright but still rested position.

The other thing that can bite you is shooting with two layers on. such as two shirts.  If the underside one gets wrinkled or bunched up on your shoulder, it can give you a bruise!

[Dphariss]

Rifles can be pretty finicky about where they are rested.
Try pulling down on the rifle with the non-shooting hand just the weight of your arm may be enough.
I would also try resting it at different places on the barrel with no down pressure.
 
I would try the front rod pipe location first.

Dan

[Skychief]

Thank you.