Author Topic: Building or Fitting a Lehigh (Read 9428 times)

54Bucks · « **on:** March 03, 2011, 06:28:29 PM »

Some recent stock architecture discussion reminds me of a bad experience. After paying to have a Lehigh custom made for me. I find the upper half of the butt stock has to be above my shoulder to get a sight picture. Needless to say take caution. I realize Lehighs tend to be straight stocked,but I still can't believe a good gunbuilder would end up with this situation. Unless of course the maximum height for Lehigh users is 5' 6" max., and/or custom made does not mean custom fit ?

bob in the woods · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2011, 06:54:06 PM »

? With the drop on mine , I can't imagine how having 1/2 the butt above my shoulder would allow me a sight picture ? What do you mean re a "straight stocked" Lehigh?

Jerry V Lape · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2011, 07:06:57 PM »

Can you measure the dimensions such as drop at comb, drop at heel, length of pull, Pitch? What you are describing is hard to visualize, and the height of the shooter you cited doesn't help either. I am getting an image of a 2x4 with barrel and buttplate!

54Bucks · « **Reply #3 on:** March 04, 2011, 07:35:09 AM »

length of pull-13 1/4"
drop@ comb-1 1/8"
drop @ heel-2 1/8'
As for pitch: measured by extending a square along the top barrel flat, the butt toe is app. -1/2" from the butt heel
I'm 6' 1" and to get a sight picture with this Lehigh I either raise the butt half way off the shoulder or slide my face way back towards the butt in an un-natural position.

Paddlefoot · « **Reply #4 on:** March 04, 2011, 07:40:58 AM »

Can you post a picture of the gun?

bob in the woods · « **Reply #5 on:** March 04, 2011, 11:39:21 AM »

I shoot mine off my upper arm. Comes up natural and perfectly. I am 6 ft 31/2 in and LOP is 14 1/4in
My Lancaster is 13 1/2 LOP I would suggest that yours is too short. Drop seems off too. Mine is over 3 in.
Are you sure yours is a Lehigh? The numbers don;t compute. IMO

bob in the woods · « **Reply #6 on:** March 04, 2011, 11:47:39 AM »

Measured the drop at the butt and it is a hair shy of 4 inches. [ on mine ] Sorry, but I just can't see yours in my mind's eye as being a Lehigh.

rf50cal · « **Reply #7 on:** March 04, 2011, 03:39:30 PM »

I know exactly what you are describing. A few years ago, I had a Lehigh made by a very well known builder. It had the appearance of a Lehigh, but the comb was too high and there wasn't enough drop. To shoot it, I would place the stock on my arm and lean my head back to get my eye low enough to line up the sights.

I shot it for a while, then sold it for a loss and moved on.

Don Getz · « **Reply #8 on:** March 04, 2011, 05:00:00 PM »

I am familiar with the gun Roger is talking about, I found it impossible to get low enought to sight it.........just terrible
architecture. Then, just yesterday, I visited Allen Martin. He was working on Dane Lund's Lehigh, Allen said, "try this
one". Fit as good as any Lehigh I have ever held, had enough drop to make it comfortable. Then I also looked at his
lock inlet, sure wish I knew how he does it. Since we were recently talking about english lock inlets, well, they don't have much over this one that Allen did...............Don

rich pierce · « **Reply #9 on:** March 04, 2011, 08:25:03 PM »

I'm confused about how too little drop would cause you to have to lift the butt upwards to see the sights. But regardless, I think there's a tutorial on how to bend a stock with hot oil to get more drop. Taylor Sapergia does it with hot oil as I recall.

Leatherbelly · « **Reply #10 on:** March 04, 2011, 08:33:57 PM »

Speaking of Taylor, I've shot his 40 Lehigh(J.Kuntz) and it's one of the most pleasent guns I've ever shot. The end.

Larry Pletcher · « **Reply #11 on:** March 04, 2011, 08:41:20 PM »

Quote from: Don Getz on March 04, 2011, 05:00:00 PM

I am familiar with the gun Roger is talking about, I found it impossible to get low enought to sight it.........just terrible
architecture. Then, just yesterday, I visited Allen Martin. He was working on Dane Lund's Lehigh, Allen said, "try this
one". Fit as good as any Lehigh I have ever held, had enough drop to make it comfortable. Then I also looked at his
lock inlet, sure wish I knew how he does it. Since we were recently talking about english lock inlets, well, they don't have much over this one that Allen did...............Don

Hi Don,
I agree. I have always been afraid of Lehigh stocks, thinking that they wouldn't fit well. But, at CLA last August I looked at Allen's Lehigh Schimmel. It fit very well. Allen said, "It's all in the architecture." I certainly believe him. I could get very interested in him building me something.

Regards,
Pletch

Jerry V Lape · « **Reply #12 on:** March 04, 2011, 08:54:08 PM »

I agree there isn't enough drop. That 1 1/8th at the comb should probably be more like 1 1/2" measured from the center height of the sight line and the drop at heel should probably be more like 2 3/4" from the same sight line - maybe a little more. These dimensions are a function of how beefy your face is between cheek and eye. I have had gunstocks bent on modern shotguns which is probably harder than on a flintlock. I suggest you find a good stockbender who uses heat lamps and oil to give this a try. Shouldn't require any refinishing, but may require a little adjustment to the back fastener on your trigger guard which I would loosen before having the stock bent. Wouldn't have hurt for the stock to have been another 1/2" to 3/4" longer on trigger pull but that isn't something bending can resolve and you may not need it once bent as described above. Look for a stock fitter in your area - they are usually associated with shotgun sports.

smallpatch · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2011, 02:53:52 AM »

OK, OK,

Everybody is talking about my Lehigh, and how wonderful it is....... AND I HAVEN'T EVEN SEEN IT YET!!

Allen's been teasing me via email, and Don is fondling it.

Somebody PLEASE show me pictures!!!

Back to the post at hand.

It IS in the architecture. I've built only one myself. I cheated, I used a profile that Allen drew for me. It is an absolute DREAM to shoot.

Don Getz · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2011, 03:19:32 AM »

Dane........just as I was leaving Allen's shop, I think your gun slid off the bench and I heard Allen say......"oh no"........
something like a busted wrist, or something like that. I doubt that you will even be able to see the glue mark........................................................................................sorry, I just had to do that, ha, ha......Don

54Bucks · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2011, 03:35:30 AM »

Quote from: rich pierce on March 04, 2011, 08:25:03 PM

I'm confused about how too little drop would cause you to have to lift the butt upwards to see the sights. But regardless, I think there's a tutorial on how to bend a stock with hot oil to get more drop. Taylor Sapergia does it with hot oil as I recall.

I don't pretend to be a gunbuilder who should know how to fit a gun to a particular person but I think the answer to your question Rich is quite simple. The drop of a rifle @ the heel of the butt (top flat to butt heel) is simply accomodating the natural physical difference between a persons shoulder and a their eye level. If a rifle has way too little drop for a shooter than the line of sight is way above the sights. In this case the only way to match the line of sight to the sights would be to raise the butt stock (heel) above the shoulder.
Try this experiment: sight down something straight like a yardstick,board, ect. Keeping the rear at the proper height on your shoulder. Then attempt to contort your body to line up imaginary rear sights/front sights with your line of sight. Physically impossible.

smallpatch · « **Reply #16 on:** March 05, 2011, 03:48:21 AM »

Don,

Now that was just MEAN!!

D. Taylor Sapergia · « **Reply #17 on:** March 05, 2011, 04:04:14 AM »

One thing that I have found useful when it comes to offering a stock shape that best fits a person, is to have kept track of many different styles of rifles' particular dimensions...drop at heel, toe, length of pull, height above the top flat of the sights, distance of rear sight to the breech, and so forth. Also, I make a comment about the rifle's suitability for offhand shooting, and record the info for later study. What you see eventually, is a pattern.
Also of remark, is the many different ways that shooters shoulder a rifle or a fowler, and this too can make a great difference in what will or will not fit them, if they continue to shoot that way. I try to encourage shooters to bring the gun to their eye rather than shoulder it and bring their head down to the gun. With the first method, a length of pull can be much shorter than with the second, though it is often difficult to get people to change. In trying to capture the essence of the longrifle, one should try to stick to dimensions and architecture of the old guns. Rifles with 14 1/2" - 15" lop's lose it, to my mind.
There is no reason a Lehigh rifle has to be a cheek buster or require sights that are absurdly high off the barrel, if these elements are adhered to.

smallpatch · « **Reply #18 on:** March 10, 2011, 04:02:45 AM »

OK,

Allen sent me several photos of his progress. (because I whined so much) Some of just the shape and architecture, then some with what he calls "rough drawn" carving.
What an absolute beauty. Allen, you sly dog...... I stand in awe!! If you tell me now, that you draw free hand all that carving....AAARRRGGGHHH.!!!!!!! (It's a Love/Hate thing)

I just can't wait to actually get my hands on that beauty.

rich pierce · « **Reply #19 on:** March 10, 2011, 04:11:37 AM »

Quote from: 54Bucks on March 05, 2011, 03:35:30 AM

I don't pretend to be a gunbuilder who should know how to fit a gun to a particular person but I think the answer to your question Rich is quite simple. The drop of a rifle @ the heel of the butt (top flat to butt heel) is simply accomodating the natural physical difference between a persons shoulder and a their eye level. If a rifle has way too little drop for a shooter than the line of sight is way above the sights. In this case the only way to match the line of sight to the sights would be to raise the butt stock (heel) above the shoulder.
Try this experiment: sight down something straight like a yardstick,board, ect. Keeping the rear at the proper height on your shoulder. Then attempt to contort your body to line up imaginary rear sights/front sights with your line of sight. Physically impossible.

54, great explanation- I get it now! Thanks

AMartin · « **Reply #20 on:** March 10, 2011, 04:26:20 AM »

Hey Smallpatch

All freehand !!! Sometimes I'll use a copy out of a book or photograph , blow it up to the proper size and use carbon paper to get the basic shape on the rifle , then refine everything ... But I winged this one free hand ... perhaps I'll post a photo or 2 tomorrow !!
I have all the carving relieved and back ground cleaned scraped . .... and the detailed modeling along quite nicely .
Tomorrow I'll wrap it up and into the finish !!!

It won't be long !!

Allen

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Author Topic: Building or Fitting a Lehigh (Read 9428 times)

54Bucks

54Bucks

Leatherbelly

54Bucks