Author Topic: reducing the shakes  (Read 33432 times)

William Worth

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #50 on: July 04, 2011, 02:35:15 AM »
Ye, what he said.

I was trying to think of a lazy eight (like an infinity sign)... or an upright eight?

I like coming up to the target as I won't know when the target will shoot past my sight picture if it comes up from below by dropping the sights down onto it.

SPG

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #51 on: July 04, 2011, 04:25:08 AM »
Gentlemen,

For what it's worth I have tried many different kinds of "come-ons" to the target in my Schuetzen endeavors. Coming up from the bottom is, at least for me, a good way to drop shots. When the trigger breaks there is a tendency to drop (read "relax") the hold.

I prefer to come-on from the right to left, maintaining elevation, and break the shot. If the rifle is moving left many times there is a tendency to pull right with the trigger finger which cancels the movement and gives a bit of a "hang" on the bull. I shoot my Schuetzen rifles and flintlocks in exactly the same fashion.

These are all nuances that one sees when using a 20X scope shooting offhand. It's still there when one uses irons it's just that the scope slaps you in the face with it.

However, this all being said, if you put twenty offhand shooters in a room you will have twenty different techniques for holding and breaking the shot. One thing to contemplate is that one always shoots on a slow swing...and if the sights are in the middle, and the rifle hasn't gone off, there is only one place they can go...namely, out of the bull.

And...a good follow-through trumps a perfect hold every time.

Steve

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #52 on: July 04, 2011, 06:02:52 PM »
Gentlemen,

For what it's worth I have tried many different kinds of "come-ons" to the target in my Schuetzen endeavors. Coming up from the bottom is, at least for me, a good way to drop shots. When the trigger breaks there is a tendency to drop (read "relax") the hold.

I prefer to come-on from the right to left, maintaining elevation, and break the shot. If the rifle is moving left many times there is a tendency to pull right with the trigger finger which cancels the movement and gives a bit of a "hang" on the bull. I shoot my Schuetzen rifles and flintlocks in exactly the same fashion.

These are all nuances that one sees when using a 20X scope shooting offhand. It's still there when one uses irons it's just that the scope slaps you in the face with it.

However, this all being said, if you put twenty offhand shooters in a room you will have twenty different techniques for holding and breaking the shot. One thing to contemplate is that one always shoots on a slow swing...and if the sights are in the middle, and the rifle hasn't gone off, there is only one place they can go...namely, out of the bull.

And...a good follow-through trumps a perfect hold every time.

Steve
Interesting.  I have tried that sliding in from 9 O'clock idea on animal targets that have the long but narrow 10 ring (strip) and seems to work fairly well; but being old and @!*% stubborn, I always go back to the coming in from 6 0'clock habit.
Then catch my self 'throwing the rifle'. High at 1 0'clock.

Offline longcruise

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #53 on: July 06, 2011, 01:20:42 AM »
About a half hour before I start shooting I have a couple of big spoonfuls of peanut butter and no high test coffee but a good amount of water .I have noticed that it helps me keep the rifle steady. Another I try to have my rifle in good working order ,sharp, flint being number one.


Smooth or crunchy?
Mike Lee

David R. Watson

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #54 on: August 09, 2011, 05:10:40 PM »
Again I found something by just cruising the blogs-
Offhand techniques are as varied as the number of shooters, but I do believe that the relatively short and stocky shooters have an advantage over the skinny shooters like me. It stands to reason that a guy with a barrel chest and thick arms have a more solid support than a slighter (?) built person.
I'm not sure I will explain this clearly, but when I brought the rifle up from the six position and got on the target I sort of relaxed my arms which gave me a little cushion when the flinter broke. This might be all in my mind, but I felt that in order to flinch/pull or whatever you want to call it I had to take up the slack created by the relaxation before the sights started to move. This gave the rifle time to fire.
I also shot "pumpkin on a post" so that I could clearly see the point of impact of the ball - 6:00 on a sixbull at 25-50 and just in the black at 50 and 6:00 at 100.
Another, I think, critical factor is a front sight that is compatible to the target. When I was in my prime I got the idea of using a razor blade for a front sight. I could never make the set trigger break due to the fact that I could see it moving all over the 9/10 ring - drove me nuts so I went to a sight that was the apparent width of the sixbull - problem solved.

Daryl

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #55 on: August 09, 2011, 05:46:23 PM »
Another, I think, critical factor is a front sight that is compatible to the target. 

David - in group shooting, this is of vital importance - how the sights match the target's apearance - but of course, on animal targets and various 'fun targets' is it a comprimize.

The time to have the 'perfect' sight picture, sights and target bull - or as perfect as possible, is when testing loads - or hopefully, if involved in the same type of shooting often, one can sight to the expected targets. Those who rendezvous will find their sights 'work' on some targets and not so well on others.

 

David R. Watson

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #56 on: August 09, 2011, 06:12:57 PM »
I absolutely agree with that. another thing I use to see at matches is for a shooter who has held it too long to drop the rifle down to a low horizontal position, but forget that he is still holding the rifle and that his muscles are still working. I always - if the range allowed it - rested the rifle on the firing line - down range of course - and allowed my arms to hang freely while I relaxed both mentally and physically. Sometimes I would open the frizzen and just start over.
You just cannot allow yourself to force the shot as sooner than later you will pay the scorekeeper.
I was shooting the 100 yard target at Friendship and got a little pressure on me as my agg score was hot - I decided to shoot the five shots offhand without looking after my sighter which was a solid ten. I started and fired what turned out to be three shots, but since I was taking to a bunch of people (runnin' my mouth) I lost count and knew I had to look. I was looking at at three 10's - 12:00/3:00 and 9:00! Needless to say the monkey came out of nowhere and jumped on my back. I shot a 6 at 9:00 and an out at 9:00. Point of aim was wide 3:00 due to right to left wind...such is life.

Daryl

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #57 on: August 09, 2011, 06:21:00 PM »
It happens - at Helfey, we don't allow spotting, but then, there's only 2 paper contests anyway. A 25/50/75 yard offhand match and a 50 yard chunk shoot. No spotting.

Leatherbelly

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #58 on: August 09, 2011, 08:14:37 PM »
  I gave up "drinking heavily". That got rid of all kinds off issues. No creepy crawlers, pink elephants and no more snakes! Oh $#@*, sorry, I thought you said "snakes"? LOL ;D  :o

Daryl

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #59 on: August 10, 2011, 07:43:53 PM »
 ;D ;D

Offline George Sutton

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #60 on: August 11, 2011, 09:21:57 PM »
Practice, Practice, Practice :)

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #61 on: August 11, 2011, 10:59:29 PM »
This may sound strange, but...as you age, your physique changes, and in my case, the target rifle I built that fit me perfectly at the time, just didn't hang /hold like it used to.  I ended up shortening the LOP, and we are friends again. :)  Holds steady as  a rock , like it used to. Either my arms got shorter, my shoulder got bigger, or the gun stretched ......my point is that  "fit" is a big part of offhand shooting IMO.
Something to think about.

Daryl

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2011, 04:52:58 AM »
hmm- Will 40 pounds extra weight make any difference? It has not made me any more stable.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 04:53:20 AM by Daryl »

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #63 on: August 12, 2011, 05:18:08 AM »
Daryl...the 40 extra pounds won't make you any more stable, but a shorter length of pull might help??
[ to compensate for that extra dimension]

Offline mark esterly

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #64 on: August 13, 2011, 02:22:33 AM »
tape weight to the butt end of the rifle in increments until you find what actually balances the gun with your hold. you can then remove the butt plate, drill holes and add that much lead.  most folks like using their patchbox i think but that is where i would put the weight. 
living in the hope of HIS coming.......

Rasch Chronicles

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #65 on: August 13, 2011, 10:53:23 AM »
Everything that everyone else said and: Get physically ft!

Work out at home, get a dumbell plate set and a workout plan (BM 101 or M&S), and go at it.

Forget getting old, leave that for tomorrow, next week, year or decade! You will feel better, sleep better, have more fun.

Oh, and your shooting will improve!

Best regards,
Albert “Afghanus” Rasch
Mama Domicenti’s Kitchen and Albert tries Market Hunting

Offline Roger Fisher

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #66 on: August 13, 2011, 05:24:52 PM »
Everything that everyone else said and: Get physically ft!

Work out at home, get a dumbell plate set and a workout plan (BM 101 or M&S), and go at it.

Forget getting old, leave that for tomorrow, next week, year or decade! You will feel better, sleep better, have more fun.

Oh, and your shooting will improve!

Best regards,
Albert “Afghanus” Rasch
Mama Domicenti’s Kitchen and Albert tries Market Hunting

"Forget getting old"!!!!!!!!!! ::)  So, what can you do if your already there ??? ??? :)

Rasch Chronicles

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #67 on: August 14, 2011, 08:16:37 AM »
Roger,

I meant no disrespect, I hope you know that.

I put my Dad on a modified regimen for an 84 year old man. It has made a marked difference in his quality of life. It's just like everything else in life, if you don't use it, you lose it. Everyone can do something about getting more fit, and it really is the cheapest medicine you can take.

Of course, it's easy for me to say. I never smoked, rarely drank, never did the kind of labor that breaks a man's body. But I did get my leg darn near ripped off, and the other foot crushed. Through hard work and perseverence, you would never know that I ever got so much as a boo-boo.

All I am saying, is that if we watch what we eat, (as in take care of what we injest, not watch it disappear down our gullets,) and try to dedicate time to excercise and healthy activity, we would all do much better.

Most of you have a head start already. You're outdoorsmen! Just do more of what you have been doing, and add little things that will increase your strength and endurance. I'm telling you, the dumbells can work wonders because they are convenient and easily used wherever you are. All I can say is try it, you may actually like it!

Best regards,
Albert “Afghanus” Rasch
Mama Domicenti’s Kitchen: Albert Tries Market Hunting

tuffy

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #68 on: August 14, 2011, 08:38:23 AM »
hmm- Will 40 pounds extra weight make any difference? It has not made me any more stable.

Daryl..... how did you ever get your rifle to put on 40 pounds? ;D ::) ;D

    CW

lakehopper

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2011, 03:38:10 AM »
I found controlling your breathing helps reduce the shakes, hold your breath exhale a little and exhale again while firing the rifle.

Works for me.

hlary

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2011, 11:12:21 PM »
I read this forum often not only for it's information but also for it's entertainment. I seldom post, but this topic got my attention. I have shot small bore metallic silhouette since 1989 and for those unfamiliar with this competition, it is all done off hand and any artificial means of support, including restrictive clothing, are against the rules. Just you and your rifle. These things concerning this topic I can say for a fact. First and foremost, there are basic fundamentals of off hand shooting that can be modified to each individual, to any degree, but must NEVER be ignored. Period. The position must be stable even though it may not be perfect.The three "P's" of off hand shooting have already been mentioned, practice, practice, practice. Remember, a well practiced position, although imperfect, will out shoot a perfect position never practiced. I also know that the ability of concentration outweighs physical ability, although the two are closely tied together in that a slow resting heart rate makes for a steadier hold. A slower heart rate can be achieved with better physical conditioning. If you think your hold is shaky, try looking through a 40 power scope. I used to be able to handle 40 power but at my age, a 14 power (that's what I presently use) is all I can manage and some days it's very busy too. Iron sights are by far the easiest to manage as there is nothing to magnify the wobble. The perceived sight picture just "appears" steadier. Next, get the shot off. Don't be afraid to let 'er go! Your hold will not improve the longer you hold it, trust me. If you can't, lower the rifle and start all over. It takes some discipline to do that, but it will improve your scores. Finally, (I guess) it depends on how competitive you really want to be, for you will only perform as good as you train. Age definitely does make a difference. I don't know how many of you read "The Single Shot Exchange" but they print articles from hunting and fishing magazines written in the late 1800's pertaining to shooting. One recently dealt with off hand shooting and had this to say. It went something like this: off hand shooting is a sport for young men with steady nerves and bench shooting is for old men. Too much truth, you have to remember that these articles were written before the advent of our all inclusive, politically correct society we know today, and just smile. For what it's wotrth, I hope this helps some and keeps you off the bench at least for a little while longer!

Daryl

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #71 on: August 17, 2011, 01:00:38 AM »
I've gone to a high bench position, just to keep my chest from touching. I still have to concentrate on squeezing off  the shot between heart beats as the face touching the stock also transmits - it's quite visible at 20X.
Thankfully, our longrifles hold steadier than most small bore silhouette rifles.

Offline bob in the woods

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #72 on: August 17, 2011, 04:27:41 AM »
It is really interesting to see the effects of my heart beating when shooting off the the bench with my 22-250 and a 16 power scope. Just goes to show you what you don't see when using a muzzleloader.
I have an underhammer .54 with aperture sights that shoots really well, but you can't see any heart beats.
Doesn't seem to matter.

Rasch Chronicles

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #73 on: August 17, 2011, 09:46:25 AM »
Quote
Age definitely does make a difference. I don't know how many of you read "The Single Shot Exchange" but they print articles from hunting and fishing magazines written in the late 1800's pertaining to shooting. One recently dealt with off hand shooting and had this to say. It went something like this: off hand shooting is a sport for young men with steady nerves and bench shooting is for old men.

Now I am getting depressed... :'(

Best regards,
Albert “Afghanus” Rasch
Charged! Hog Hunting at its Best!
ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

omark

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Re: reducing the shakes
« Reply #74 on: September 17, 2011, 12:10:33 AM »
albert, just wait another 20-25 yrs if you think this is depressing.    :D    mark