Author Topic: H Carlile Pennsylvania / Kentucky rifle (Read 18047 times)

Spider7115 · « **on:** October 16, 2008, 09:37:33 PM »

Hi, All -

I just bought this fullstock .45 caliber Kentucky and I hope I did ok. I don't have it in-hand yet so all I have are the pics below. The barrel flat is marked "H CARLILE" and the lock is unmarked. The stock is tiger maple and the rifle is original flintlock with double-set triggers.

Any information on the maker and opinions & approximate value of this rifle would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! - Spider

Steve Collward · « **Reply #1 on:** October 17, 2008, 12:28:39 AM »

A. Merwyn Carey's book, "American Firearms Makers", page 17, he cites H. Carlile "about 1780", Lancaster, Pa.
In Kindig's "Thoughts on the Kentucky Rifle..." on page 484, he mentions H. Carlisle in discussing makers of the Chambersburg School.

Steve Collward

nord · « **Reply #2 on:** October 17, 2008, 12:28:50 AM »

Spider -

You saw Jim's comments on AG. I tend to concur. Though I'd like to see more, this is a very nice gun.

Best,

B.

Spider7115 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 17, 2008, 12:51:17 AM »

Hi, Nord - Yes, I saw Jim's comments but I was taking your advice and posting in this forum as well. Perhaps someone has come across one or has some additional info. I'd also like to know the price range this may bring but more pics may help once I get it in hand. I'll make sure you see them as well.

Thanks! - Spider

Tim Crosby · « **Reply #4 on:** October 17, 2008, 01:09:56 AM »

Nice rifle. The side opening PB is really neat. I'd like to see more pics when you get them.
Thank for posting these.

Tim C.

Spider7115 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 17, 2008, 01:56:41 AM »

Thanks, Tim, and for letting me crash your forum. I just don't know much about this rifle but it really appealed to me. I'll post pics as soon as my rifle arrives.

-Spider

lew wetzel · « **Reply #6 on:** October 17, 2008, 05:24:05 AM »

hey spider,that is a gem of a rifle you got there.please post more pics as soon as it gets into your hands.would like to see some detailed pics of inlays and patch box.....thanks for sharing...

T*O*F · « **Reply #7 on:** October 17, 2008, 05:41:03 AM »

@!*%?&..............I just punched a hole in my monitor trying to kill a humongous spider that was crawing across it.

Tanselman · « **Reply #8 on:** October 17, 2008, 08:36:04 AM »

It's a fine looking Carlisle rifle, and when we can see a couple of closer views, with all its silver, it may be even better than we think. The lock raises a couple of questions in my mind, note the alignment with flash hole is poor and style seems a bit early for this particular rifle, but still a really nice Carlisle rifle. Shelby Gallien

JTR · « **Reply #9 on:** October 17, 2008, 03:00:02 PM »

I noticed the pan / touch hole relationship as well, but that's not the end of th world for an otherwise nice rifle.
Thanks for posting the pictures, and please post more when you get the gun!

So what is AG?? And where can I find it?

Wish that gun was coming to my house!!

John

Spider7115 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 17, 2008, 03:18:33 PM »

"AG" is www.antiqueguns.com

nord · « **Reply #11 on:** October 17, 2008, 03:30:19 PM »

Ahh...

AG is code for Antiqueguns.com. I happen to know the Admin on a really personal level and always hesitate to drop names where they might not be appreciated. In this case I need to explain that the auction side of AG and the discussion boards are totally different entities. We allow no buying or selling on the discussion side.

Should any of you gentlemen care to visit, please consider this an open invitation. Let me know if you have any problems signing up with the site. Registration became necessary when trolls tried to take over the board with filth... Most of you are familiar with this by now.

Just a note... I'd like to see more discussion of fine old rifles on the AG site. I don't view ALR and AG as being in competition. Thus, I freely advise folks at AG to visit this site as we're both about sharing information and educating those who share our interests. It would be my hope that reciprocation here would not be a problem.

Should I be off base or should my post offend anyone here, please feel free to remove it as I have no wish to cause problems.

Hurricane ( of Virginia) · « **Reply #12 on:** October 17, 2008, 05:58:31 PM »

JTR:
"AG" is antiqueguns.com. Whooops...did not see Nords post
Hurricane

JTR · « **Reply #13 on:** October 17, 2008, 07:34:34 PM »

Thanks!

Dave B · « **Reply #14 on:** October 17, 2008, 10:42:10 PM »

This is a very nice piece. Congrats on being able to aquire it. This is the first time I have seen a side opening box with a faux conventional hinge ridge. Have others of you seen this before?
I too would like to see additional photos of the rifle.

J. Talbert · « **Reply #15 on:** October 19, 2008, 06:12:21 AM »

Very nice rifle!
Though I too have doubts about the origin of the lock. From what I can see, it bears a strong resemblance to an L&R, possibly their Durs Egg. Not to cast aspersions; just my first impression.
Nice rifle regardless.

turfman · « **Reply #16 on:** October 19, 2008, 05:59:09 PM »

Thats a pretty nice Carlisle. Ron Gabel has a real nice one and has some good info on him. I do have pics of his gun but would rather you contact him for info.

turfman

Spider7115 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 19, 2008, 09:07:40 PM »

Quote from: turfman on October 19, 2008, 05:59:09 PM

Thats a pretty nice Carlisle. Ron Gabel has a real nice one and has some good info on him. I do have pics of his gun but would rather you contact him for info.

turfman

I would certainly appreciate any pics you may have of another Carlile rifle

mr. no gold · « **Reply #18 on:** October 20, 2008, 09:41:23 PM »

This is a very nice and reasonably early H. Carlisle rifle, (1820?). He seems to have learned the craft in Lancaster and then moved west toward Chambersburg and to Shippensburg, finally. He built a great rifle as this one demonstates. It has ornamentation beyond his usual treatment. The box is clearly unique if it opens on the side. Only one I have seen like it. The silver inlays are very fine; the cheek inlay being most unusual with the eagle wings spreading out beyond the oval, on each side.
The lock does not seem to be correct to the rifle as it would have had a good rat tail English lock such as Rogers & Brothers or other maker. The plate would have been engraved and of the type known up to about 1820 when the round tail lock plate seemed to become popular.
I hope that it is now hanging up on your wall and that you enjoy it as much as the rest of us have in seeing your posts of it. Thank you.

B Shipman · « **Reply #19 on:** October 21, 2008, 06:01:17 AM »

Clearly a replacement lock, but a great many are. A very cool rifle. I have a great desire now to build a Chambersburg rifle with trick side opening patchbox. When a rifle is neat enough to inspire; it's a good one.

Tanselman · « **Reply #20 on:** October 21, 2008, 06:26:29 AM »

I've always wondered why they didn't make more of the better quality rifles with side opening patchboxes with bottom hinges. It seems the lid would be better supported, less prone to bending or stressing/raising the hinge, and might even help catch "stuff" that starts to fall out when the box is open. More work with the longer hinge, but just seems like it might be a better mouse trap. So what am I missing here? Shelby Gallien

JTR · « **Reply #21 on:** October 21, 2008, 03:40:18 PM »

So Spider, when are you going to get this beauty and post some more pictures for us???
John

Spider7115 · « **Reply #22 on:** October 21, 2008, 04:35:03 PM »

Quote from: JTR on October 21, 2008, 03:40:18 PM

So Spider, when are you going to get this beauty and post some more pictures for us???
John

It's probably going to be a week or so before I have it. I'm really looking forward to getting it and taking all the pictures you guys want! Maybe someone can better identify the lock once I get some good closeups.

I'm curious about one thing: Have any of you ever seen the "drop down" type of patchbox rather than the forward opening? I've never seen one and I think it's very unique. I'm just wondering if that was something Carlile tried on his own or maybe it was a special order. Actually, it seems to make more sense than the forward-opening style.

Hurricane ( of Virginia) · « **Reply #23 on:** October 22, 2008, 06:50:25 AM »

Erik Kettenberg has a web site. He is a contemporary gunsmith. He had posted there a 250 page treatise on side opening patchboxes; probably still posted. I am sure he will send you a copy if it no longer on the site.
Hurricane

Spider7115 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 01, 2008, 02:28:47 PM »

Quote from: JTR on October 21, 2008, 03:40:18 PM

So Spider, when are you going to get this beauty and post some more pictures for us???
John

It's finally on its way! I just tracked in through FedEx and it will be here on Monday, 3 November. If it arrives early enough, I'll post some new pics. Otherwise, look for them on Tuesday!

News:

Author Topic: H Carlile Pennsylvania / Kentucky rifle (Read 18047 times)

Spider7115

Spider7115

Spider7115

lew wetzel

Spider7115

turfman

Spider7115

Spider7115

Spider7115