FFFg in rifles

[Dphariss]

Dan, my 45 Sharps (the Sharps version of a 45-70) is extremely forgiving & works exceptionally well with several different smokeless powders (& has for 20+ years) including 2400 with cork filler wads, which I prefer, but that's getting way too far off topic & belongs in a different forum!

Very big name in handloading shot 22 or 24 gr of 2400 in 45-70 for 30+ years until one day he blew off several fingers. He was warned but the guy that warned him was younger and he had done it so long he was sure it was "safe".
I don't use fillers they range from a PITA to dangerous.
Unique will produce 100s of chamber rings if used long enough in a 45-70 from the case web to case mouth (Lyman has pulled the loads from their books IIRC). Finally it will ring at the base of the bullet enough to mark the case and the customer then thinks its the maker's fault. Has happened to both Shiloh and Ruger that I know of. The shooter eats the barrel BTW.
The number of old and new guns damaged or destroyed with reduced loads of smokeless is scary. Fillers may help or make it worse depending.
There are other stories but this is not the place.

Dan

[Daryl]

yip - fill that case with 2f or H4895 and have done with it.

CB's got a point. I've found 2f to shoot well in every rifle I've tried it in down to .36 cal.  AND no, it has never shot dirtier for me in any rifle.

I might just try a 50/50 mix come summer and see what the results are.

[James]

You folks have settled it- as we will be shooting rifles and pistols I will order a mixed lot of FFg  &FFFg. Thanks, James

[Dphariss]

yip - fill that case with 2f or H4895 and have done with it.

CB's got a point. I've found 2f to shoot well in every rifle I've tried it in down to .36 cal.  AND no, it has never shot dirtier for me in any rifle.

I might just try a 50/50 mix come summer and see what the results are.

I was surprised the 50 fouled the way it did with ff everything says it would not do this but would produce softer fouling.
I am assuming its some idiosyncrasy.
I shoot FFF in almost everything, the 16 bore being the sole exception. But right now I have a lot more FF than anything else...
A friend has been getting very good accuracy from 1.5F Swiss in a 45 and a 40 as well IIRC.

This tells me that coarse powder will work in almost any rifle. But I think the same shooter has gone back to FFF Swiss in a 50 caliber he owns.
I just got in the habit of shooting FFF in 50-58 over 40 years ago when it was all I had on hand and I had built first a 50 and then a 58 caliber rifle, I shot what I had.

Dan

[Daryl]

Dan- that's the way I got to be with FFG until I got the .45- then tried 3F first.

The only thing I have against using 2F in the .40 and .45, is about every 8 shots or so, I get a hard piece of fouling plugging the vent and have to prick the vent. Of course, if using it for hunting, I'd prick the vent every time it was loaded so the flash in the pan wouldn't happen.  this fouling might be coming off the scraper side (vent cover) of the frizzen, or from the inside, which I doubt due to the gasses venting out the vent under pressure.

[Leatherbelly]

I use Goex 3fg in everything from .32 to .75. For me it burns cleaner and gives better accuracy.

Centershot

 Center,
   No matter what granulation, a good shooting load can be found.IMHO.
Getting the basics down by having a nice radiused crown,tight patch/ball/bore combination and a good lube are foremost. Myself, I like the larger granulation. I guess this goes back to my smokeless days of getting a complete burn within the full barrel length.(barrels I own are 42" and longer) I think this theory holds true with BP also.
  Now if I shot pistols, I might shoot 3f in everything.

[KennyC]

Have always (30 yrs.) used 3 fg in my 45 long gun and 62 tulle . My 45  has a  large siler and have used  3fg for prime with great results.

[LynnC]

And I was frustrated with the patterns I was gettin in my .36 cal using 3f.  Tried every patch, ball, charge, lube combo I could think of. No good.  Tried 2f and suddenly patterns became groups.

It just boils down to what the gun wants to shot acurately.....Lynn

[Swampwalker]

Lynn, I had the same experience in a .32!  Tried every combination of patch, lube, ball with 3F.  Then tried 2F, and was suddenly getting groups. 
I think one of the difference is consistency - the 3F can settle more when filling the measure as compared to 2F, and perhaps increases velocity variability shot to shot.  Regardless, I use 2F in all of my rifles now.

[westerner]

   2f is for rifles
   3f is for pistols.the end

Yesterday was out shooting a percussion schuetzen rifle. Offhand at one hundred yards.  Was using a 358-311 bullet with a two strip paper patch.  Ran out of GOEX Express FFF so finished the string with 1 1/2 Swiss.   Couldnt tell any difference. Loaded the same, shot the same, cleaned between shots the same, sounded the same, smoked the same, smelled the same (nice)  .   Think I'll start using up that twenty year old GOEX FF. I probly wont be able to tell the difference. 

                       Joe.

[westerner]

Had the same rifle out today. Only thing different was the powder and day. Used the old Goex FF with the 7.95 price tag on it.  Bullets printed six inches lower on the target. Report sounded dull.  Seemed to burn a little dirtier, didnt have to change the cleaning routine. 

So what does it all mean    Well,  so far GOEX FFF Express and Swiss 1 1/2 works the same in my rifle.  If I had my druthers, I'd use the GOEX FFF Express all the time.  It's made in America, oh wait, the rifle was made in Munich. $#@*! Maybe I should use Swiss?  I dont know what to do.   

                       Joe.

                   

[jeager58]

im sure its been done but does anyone know of anyone who has combined 2x and 3x in the same load  to get the fast burn of 3x and the long duration of 2x.    what were the results.   phil

[Dphariss]

Had the same rifle out today. Only thing different was the powder and day. Used the old Goex FF with the 7.95 price tag on it.  Bullets printed six inches lower on the target. Report sounded dull.  Seemed to burn a little dirtier, didnt have to change the cleaning routine. 

So what does it all mean    Well,  so far GOEX FFF Express and Swiss 1 1/2 works the same in my rifle.  If I had my druthers, I'd use the GOEX FFF Express all the time.  It's made in America, oh wait, the rifle was made in Munich. $#@*! Maybe I should use Swiss?  I dont know what to do.   

                       Joe.

                   

If shooting a bullet you might try FG Swiss.
The old timers used to use FG almost exclusively with bullets.
1.5f is very close to FF Swiss.
I would think the Swiss would out shoot the goex but one never knows. It does in virtually everything else with very few exceptions.
Dan

[cmac]

The last powder delivery I had to my house was shipped ups and the driver asked me what the $#*! it was as he stared at all the warning labels. I told him black powder and he just quickly turned and left. This was primarily 3f. Does 3f scare drivers more than 2f?

[Harnic]

The last powder delivery I had to my house was shipped ups and the driver asked me what the $#*! it was as he stared at all the warning labels. I told him black powder and he just quickly turned and left. This was primarily 3f. Does 3f scare drivers more than 2f?

The anti-gun folks in Canada have been waging a very effective scare campaign too.  When non-shooters hear what a shooter's hobby is, the response of often wide-eyed fear...   We can thank Hollywierd, TV, & the news media.  The main exposure to guns the average person has is the sensationalist $#@* that is spewed out on the big screen & our tvs.

[Glenn]

The last powder delivery I had to my house was shipped ups and the driver asked me what the $#*! it was as he stared at all the warning labels. I told him black powder and he just quickly turned and left. This was primarily 3f. Does 3f scare drivers more than 2f?

R-O-F-L-M-A-O ... 

[Glenn]

The last powder delivery I had to my house was shipped ups and the driver asked me what the $#*! it was as he stared at all the warning labels. I told him black powder and he just quickly turned and left. This was primarily 3f. Does 3f scare drivers more than 2f?

The anti-gun folks in Canada have been waging a very effective scare campaign too.  When non-shooters hear what a shooter's hobby is, the response of often wide-eyed fear...   We can thank Hollywierd, TV, & the news media.  The main exposure to guns the average person has is the sensationalist $#@* that is spewed out on the big screen & our tvs.

I couldn't agree with you more.  I might point out that the RMCP is very, very insecure about anyone else besides them being armed.  I've had more than one discussion with an RCMP officer in the past regarding this and the last time I was told that Canada "had different history and therefore shouldn't feel the same connection to firearms".

Why muzzleloaders have to be regarded as such a threat throughout the UK and Europe I'll never figure out.

[Daryl]

Guns and powder problems guys - lets not get into politics, please.

 Yeah - we have problems with shipping - trucks that carry BP, can carry only BP - no other goods and must have  Class "A" EXPOSIVE signs all the way around the truck.  The individual cannot afford to have it shipped even if the local Puralator company will ship it (many won't) and they are the only one Federally licenced to do this, I am told. Most of us buy powder at Rondy.  If you are in Calgary or Edmonton- maybe Kamloops?, I see Wholesale Sports has it for $17.95 per pound.

[Harnic]

Guns and powder problems guys - lets not get into politics, please.

 maybe Kamloops?, I see Wholesale Sports has it for $17.95 per pound.

Nope, not Kamloops.  They refuse to comply with the prohibitive storage regulations Canada has on black powder.  They have most any smokeless or sub, but no real in Kamloops.  I buy mine through our local muzzle loading club for $19 a pound.  Best price locally.  Only one shop, a gunsmith in Vernon carries black powder & he's $6 a pound more than Wholesale Sports.

[eljeffo41]

I shoot 2f or 3f depending on availabilty.Out here in Vegas ML supplies are hard to come by.

[Leatherbelly]

   That's good Harry! I pay 20bucks a pound in bulk. Thought I was getting a deal... Can you get me some in bulk? Call.

[Harnic]

   That's good Harry! I pay 20bucks a pound in bulk. Thought I was getting a deal... Can you get me some in bulk? Call.

The club is pretty sticky about supplying non-members with powder & they only sell small amounts, you provide the can.  Now that the GOEX plant blew up again, it'll get !@*%&@ hard to find powder at any price & count on a big price jump when they get back online.  I'm going to build a caplock Hawken like Taylor did so I can shoots subs which will soon be less expensive than bp & more readily available.

[Leatherbelly]

 I think it's scare tactics myself. Ok, I'll put in my regular order today.

[Dphariss]

I shoot 2f or 3f depending on availabilty.Out here in Vegas ML supplies are hard to come by.

Powder is hard to come by in lots of places.
Buffalo Arms in Idaho is still showing Swiss at just over 20 bucks a pound by the case, though a phone call might show an increase.
Things would have to really deteriorate for me to give 20 for Goex.

Dan

[Daryl]

Dan - it's the only thing we can get that cheap - Swiss if over $30.00 and locally, GOEX is over $40.00, of course he doesn't sell any to us - not sure just who his BP customers are?