Daryl, what is the secret to not having to wipe between shots!

[Jerry V Lape]

Yesterday I made a very deliberate effort to see how long I could go without having to wipe the barrel.  I was shooting a getz .54 cal with .535 ball, .021 denim patch lube sloppy wet with ballistol/water (1/3).  After three shots I could barely seat the ball through the crud ring at bottom of the bore.  When I did wipe the barrel it brought out heavy crud.  The powder was FFg Swiss, 80gr which is lighter load than my elk load. And there was no way to describe the loading pressure as just finger pressure.   I am just incredulous that you can shoot all day without wiping. 

If you are able to do that where you shoot, perhaps it is the very low humidity here in AZ that causes my problems.  I don't know of a single shooter around here that can do any better than 3 or 4 shots without having to wipe. 

[smallpatch]

Jerry,

I live in Mesa.  I can shoot all day without cleaning.  Have been able to for the last 10 years.

If you have a good tight patch/ball combo, and USE THE RIGHT LUBE, you will have no problem.

I use a variation of "Moose Milk", but water or spit will do just as well.  The only time I run a cleaning patch during a shoot, is if I'm going to let my rifle sit for a while.  Other than that, it's the end of the day when I clean.  I clean with the same lube, and use Breakfree CLP in the barrel and steel parts to prevent rust.

If I had to run a patch between every shot, (like a lot of target shooters do)  I don't think I'd shoot anymore.  What a hassle.

Hope that helps.

[Scott Semmel]

Daryl will have a better answer but I believe the problem is too much oil in your lube, the old moosemilk was a 1 to 20 ratio oil to water. I can shoot all day without cleaning using the controversial MOS and alcohol. Daryl I believe uses windshield washer fluid with a touch of oil.

[hanshi]

I enjoy being able to shoot all day without wiping the bore.  I use (mostly) a .010 undersized ball and .015 -.017 ticking patch and lube with Hoppes #9 BP lube.

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Since my right shoulder is kind of humped, I've been shooting my .40 cal Kuntz rifle a lot.  Lately, we've been shooting around 40 shots on a Sunday, and I never have to clean until I take her home.  Then, I get only grey water from flushing the barrel in a bucket of cold water, using a tight cotton flannel patch and a stainless cleaning rod.

I shoot a .395 pure lead ball, a .019" denim patch soaked with pure neatsfoot oil, 65 grains of 3Fg GOEX and load easily with a 5/16" hickory rod.  If there is a secret, it may have to do with the alloy of your lead....must be pure lead, and with the lubrication of the patch.  The lube must take ALL of the fouling from the last shot off of the bore, and push it down to the powder with the ball.  So upon firing, all that remains is the fouling from one shot, no matter whether it is the second or fifty second shot.  I confess to having a build up of fouling at the plug, which over the coarse of the day, causes the ball to seat a little higher than it did when I started.  But it does not interfere in any way with the shooting, or the loading.  I also use a short starter the seat the ball first flush with the muzzle, then 6" down the bore.  It's the way I started and I see no reason to change now.  

The humidity here is low in the winter.  The lock and side of the barrel at the vent is always caked with white fouling at the end of the day.  Tomorrow, the weather will likely be well above freezing...it's 48 F out there this afternoon.

[Roger Fisher]

Pennsylvania here!   Some humid and some dry days....

I shoot a .454 ball, .017 spit patch (wet/wet/wet) recently up from .015 patch. In my .45 Getz Cut 'em at the muzzle no wipe tween shots unless I'm shooting Teflon for rest matches....then its every 3rd loading (if I remember).  This barrel has been well used (much like me I suppose)

[Skychief]

Glad you posted this Jerry and will read the remainder with interest.

Skychief.

[Harnic]

I don't shoot as often or as much as Daryl, Taylor & their merry band up north, but I often shoot 35-40 shots when I do get out & never wipe until I'm done.  A good tight patch/ball combination & LOTS of lube in my 50 cal GM barrel is my answer.  I use denim patches sopping wet with Hoppes #9 Plus & with powder charges under 100 grs of fff, there's never any fouling build-up in my barrel.

[caliber45]

Jerry -- .40-cal. GM barrels, .400 ball, mattress/pillow ticking patch, spit lube, 30-35 rounds, short starter, no wipe, tucson az. -- paulallen

[caliber45]

Forgot: FF Goex. -- paulallen

[Herb]

Jerry, you will not have that problem with Goex powder.  I have shot up to 140 grains of Goex 2F in testing with .54s, and used many loads at 120 grains.  No fouling problems.  But when I used Swiss 1 1/2 and 2 in a .58, I had exactly your problem.  Atfter three shots I couldn't seat a ball due to that heavy breech fouling.  I think the problem started at about 100 or 110 grains, and I went up to 120 grains for the velocity.  But I could not use that powder for my elk hunt, it just fouled so bad that I'd have to clean the bore to reload if I shot more than twice.  I have also used Swiss in .54's and remember fouling, but not that bad.  There is a threshhold where it really fouls badly, but I thought it was at more than 80 grains.

[Daryl]

Jerry - no secret - many do it as noted above.  

Your problem could be the powder as Herb suggested. I can't see the Balistol and water as being the problem, unless it's only with Swiss powder that it gives that problem - highly unlikely - but?  I've never used Balistol, though many do - does anyone who uses it, have to wipe the bore?  

There are many guys here who don't have to wipe - and more than there used to be, I'm sure.

Water, spit, water/alcohol/some oil - straight neetsfoot oil as Taylor's using in his little .40 - and with 65gr. 3F! Many does that shoot well - all day, of course.  It's been 35 or more years 30 years since we've had to wipe a bore while shooting. That encompases more than 1/2 dozen brands and qualities of powder.  I like Track's Mink Oil for hunting - have used it in the .69 and tried it on the trail in the .32- loaded slicker and slicker every shot - easy loading, all day - only 2 fingers pushing the rod down - 35gr. 3f and .311" ball, .0215" ticking patch - narrow grooves, wide lands.  Never picked up any fouling all day, breeze to clean.

The load you are using sounds perfect - .535" ball, .021" denim - sopping wet - WOW! Sounds perfect.  Aside from a very badly pitted bore in the breech area, or a powder that cooks fouling badly, creating this problem - 3 shots- WOW!  I cannot see what the problem could be.  Even a mildly pitted bore will allow continuous shooting with the load you note above.  I used a similar load in an 1850 era H Whall ball and shot gun, with horribly pitted bore, yet shot the course using it's original tapered rod. I tried to clean it with a comerical bore cleaning solution a friend had and had to remove it and pump water through it to get the horrid fouling out - yet it allowed continual shooting using a ball that was about the same fit as yours.

A .54 will allow one of those tiny flashlights to drop down to the breech so you can actually see the bore's surface. We've had to put masking tape over the lense to dull it.

I'm sure hoping it's the powder, Jerry . We use GOEX here as it's the only powder we can easily get and it's not that easy at best.

edited for clarity

[Harnic]

A .54 will allow one of those tiny flashlights to drop down to the breech so you can actually see the bore's surface. We've had to put masking tape over the lense to dull it.

Hey cool!  I'll get one for my new 58 cal barrel!  I always wanted one but couldn't find one that was easy to remove from a 50...

[Gene Carrell]

My experience, limited as it may be, is that Swiss will leave a much drier, harder and crustier (word?) fouling than  GOEX, Schutzen or other powders.  It frequently shoots cleaner, but the fouling it does leave is more problematic. I like a "moister" powder for range or target work.

[D. Bowman]

I shoot Swiss 2f in my .62  100 to 120 gr load .600 ball .25th denim patch spit for lube-warm weather or deer tallow neetsfoot oil mix for hunting & cold weather. no wipeing till I'm done shooting.

[roundball]

A moist bore environment is what works for me to shoot 50 shot range sessions without wiping between shots:

Precut/prelubed bore butter patches when the humidity if ridiculously high in the 80-90% range.

In the dry months with very low humidity I just squeeze a few squirts of Hoppes PLUS BP into a bag of those same bore butter patches and squish them around until patches are glistening wet and get the same results.


However, I always 100% clean/dry/lube the bore after every shot for load testing / development from a clean, cold barrel.

[MarkEngraver]

Jerry,

I'm up in Prescott, AZ And I can put a days worth of shooting through my .45 and not have to wipe the bore.

I am using straight Ballistol for patch lube, .440 ball, .018 pillow tick patch. I have shot with Goex, Swiss and Wano, both 2ff or 3fff and find no major difference between these powders fouling wise with Swiss being a little cleaner. The only powder I've had trouble with is Elephant, 2 maybe 3 shots and the bore is so crudded up you have to go through a whole cleaning process to get back to shooting, not just a patch or two like normal to clear things up.
This is why I've become such a fan of Ballistol.

Mark

[Daryl]

We-too see virtually no difference in shooting without wiping, Mark- no matter what the humidity is.  It can be 6% & as those who've been there, know, around 90% and pouring at Hefley Creek rondy, situated near Kamloops BC or around here, with humidity runing from around 25% up to 95%, yet no trouble with fouling at any time - loading ease remains the same. Most of us use a bit thicker patch - .019" to .0225" with a ball .005" under bore size, but I use the same patches with a .311" ball in my little .32, with never a fouling issue.
Incidently, that range of patches also worked well, sealed and shot cleanly with .010"/under balls in the .45's and .50's, however we found increasing ball size that extra .005" improved accuracy so that's why they are the norm.