staining/finishing wild cherry

[David R. Pennington]

I'm in the finishing stages of a cherry stocked longrifle and have been experimenting with finishes on scraps, but havn't found anything that works yet. I did one a few years ago with aqua fortis but it turned out too dark. Anyone got any suggestions?

[Dennis Glazener]

Try Red Devil's lye. I use about a teaspoon in a quart of water. Others have used oven cleaner. Both will age the wood to make it look much older than it is.

Exposing cherry to sunlight will darken it naturally.
Dennis

[Kermit]

Time and UV light will do a lot. I have a gun in cherry that was done with AF, and it is pretty dark. I build a lot of my furniture in cherry, and once in a while I get someone who's not willing to wait for the shift. Sometimes just oiling it prior to finishing will satisfy them, but once I tried using a little pine tar (Stockholm tar) in the oil, and it did the trick. You could try that, but you may not be willing to hunt up the tar and do the trials to get it right. Know, however, that cherry will change in time, almost regardless of what you do to it short of paint.

[volatpluvia]

One coat of Boiled linseed oil, even the kind from the hardware store will make it a very pleasing red brown color and it will still darken with age.  Then just put your favorite finish over it.
volatpluvia

[David R. Pennington]

Thanks guys. I've never heard of the lye. I'll try that on the scraps. Fruitwood usually has such a fine grain that any stain I've ever tried seems to hide the grain and just make it look dirty. I have an old box I made a few years ago that I just kept oiling with half and half turpentine and linseed oil and It looks great now. Maybe I'll just oil it and wait.

[David R. Pennington]

I forgot to ask, do you need to neutralize the lye somehow before you apply a finish or is is the solution so weak it won't matter?

[Lucky R A]

   I have used sodium hydroxide (lye) on a number of cherry stocks and have really liked the results.  The color seems to vary with the concentration of the lye mixture.  There is no need to neutralize, as lye itself is a base. I just rinse with water when I get to the color i am looking for and then dry and whisker the stock.  Lye is quite useful to stop the rusting of barrel browning solutions as well, a good thing to have around the shop.   

Ron 

[bgf]

If lye doesn't work to your liking, you can try tinting the first coat or so of oil, to get the wood a little darker initially and enhance the figure (which tinting the finish almost always does ironically).  If you have oil stain that you like the color of, shake it up well, then let it sit for a while (at least 10 minutes) and draw off a bit from the top and add it to the oil finish.  The reason for letting it settle is to precipitate the larger particles of pigment, which will obscure the figure (as you found out); you just want the smaller pieces -- ideally just the dyes.  No warranties, but it is something you could try on a scrap.  The wood will get darker naturally on its own, so you don't want to do anything drastic in the beginning, at least that is my position.

[pathfinder]

Lye treatment was also known as "Fuming" back in the day. My Grandfather and I refinished banks and libraries this way. Works on ash as well.

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Sodium hydroxide in water to stain, 1#cut of dewaxed garnet shellac to seal. Chambers Traditional oil finish.. these pics are in sunlight and prior to rubbing the gloss off with rottensstone... Out of the direct sunlight it look like traditional cherry furniture..pretty dark.... but in  the sun the grain pops.... love those red guns!!

[Dennis Glazener]

Lye treatment was also known as "Fuming" back in the day. My Grandfather and I refinished banks and libraries this way. Works on ash as well.

Speaking of fuming, I have not used it on Cherry but it might well work there, I used to soak pine picture frames in a strong tea solution which gives the wood tannic acid. Then I would put them in sealed cardboard boxes along with a couple of saucers of 28% Ammonia (I had a local pharmacist order for me). After a couple of days I would take them out. They were "aged" and looked every bit like 200 year old wood.

I recently built a Cherry stocked .32 caliber and used acorn water to stain the wood. My intention was to find some 28% Ammonia and see if the stock had enough tannic acid for the fuming process to work on it. I was happy with the stain as it was so never got around to "fuming" it.
Dennis

[T*O*F]

There is no need to neutralize, as lye itself is a base. I just rinse with water when I get to the color i am looking for and then dry and whisker the stock.  Lye is quite useful to stop the rusting of barrel browning solutions as well, a good thing to have around the shop.

This is not to cast any aspersion on Ron, but rather for general information.  We often see similar statements during discussions of barrel browning, staining with aqua fortis, and other methods.  Water is neutral and on either side you have either caustics or acids. 

In Ron's example above, he actually is neutralizing the lye by diluting it with water.  The same thing applies to aqua fortis, just on the other side of the scale.  It also applies to using acids to brown your barrel.  If flushed thoroughly with water, the acid will be neutralized.  If any item is flushed "thoroughly" to the point of full dilution, it will be neutralized.  Having done this, if your barrel continues to rust, it is not because there is still acid present but rather because you have not stopped the oxdidation process which occurs naturally because of moisture in the air.

[bgf]

I recently built a Cherry stocked .32 caliber and used acorn water to stain the wood. My intention was to find some 28% Ammonia and see if the stock had enough tannic acid for the fuming process to work on it. I was happy with the stain as it was so never got around to "fuming" it.
Dennis

Dennis,
I went back to look at that one -- the acorn stain came out extremely well.  I remember thinking at the time that it was ironic you got a natural "cherry" looking stain from acorns, but that's what happened .  I've got a bunch of acorns, do I just put them in a pot of water and boil for a while (while the wife is out, preferably)?

[Acer Saccharum]

Acorn stain? You're nuts!

[Dennis Glazener]

Acorn stain? You're nuts!

Guess so, but the reason I tried it was my son-in-law made me a batch for Christmas a year ago. He had made it for me the year before that and had forgotten about it so the next year he bottled it up and gave it to me. Then I let it sit for nearly another year before I tried it. My thought was it should put tannic acid in the wood so I can fume it. Kinda liked the way it turned out so I never did fume it.

I've got a bunch of acorns, do I just put them in a pot of water and boil for a while (while the wife is out, preferably)?

Eric (son-in-law) claims he saw the reference to acorns being used for a wood stain somewhere on the internet and thought he would make me a batch. He has a large Pin Oak in the side yard and it produces thousands of acorns. He just picked up a lot of them and put them in a large jug with water. Kept adding water as it evaporated then a couple of years later he strained the water into a quart jar and gave it to me. It has a dark amber color to it and stinks to high heaven!
Dennis
 

[Kermit]

Nuts shells and all? Cracked? Is there a secret trick?

[Pete G.]

Those would be "Oakanuts" to some of the old timers down here.

[LynnC]

To stain cherry - go to the kitchen and find the oven cleaner.  E-Z off or whatever, its got lye in it.  Spray on a scrap and see the near instant color change.  Wash off with water.  Nice red brown color and EZ too......Lynn

[David R. Pennington]

After a lot of experimenting I think I found the right combination for staining my cherry stock. Thanks fellows for all the good info. on using lye. I mixed up about a pint of water and about a teaspoon of lye and it looked better than any of the commercial stains I had tried on my test scraps. It was a real nice brown color and the grain showed up real nice but I wanted a little more red tint. I played around with some red food dye and ended up adding about 1/2 of one of those little 1/4 ounce bottles of red to my pint of lye water and I really like the way it turned out.
 I sanded the stock down good after the stain and gave it an initial coat of oil and it looks real nice. Now I just have to make the decision on how to finish the iron parts. Brown or bright or polished and patina?

[Jim Kibler]

Beware that the red from your food dye will likely fade pretty quickly.  Don't imagine it is very light fast. 

[LynnC]

If that stock is exposed to daylight much its going to darken up anyway

[Bennypapa]

PICTURES!

We need pictures.

[David R. Pennington]

Well if the red food dye fades that might be ok since I know the cherry will darken with age, matter of fact I was a little worried it might turn too dark. Well I am going to try to post some photos, hope it works. This is with one coat of cut linseed oil over the stain so its not finished but you can see the color. This is my 3rd. rifle with my first attempts at all hand forged hardware. I made everything except the barrel and lock. I will appreciate constructive criticism and any suggestions for finishing the metal. The triggers are homemade too and work real nice but might need just a little tuning.