Early Ketland on eBay

[A.Merrill]

    Go to eBay and search flintlocks, then go to page 2. This early Ketland looks more like a late Ketland. What do you guys think?     Thanks    AL

[rich pierce]

Looks expensive.  Agree it's not early.

[J. Talbert]

Pretty pricey for what's left of it ...

Jeff

[A.Merrill]

    Did you read what it says about the lock? William Ketland,Sr. began his firearms company about 1755. W.Ketland on the interior face of the lockplate, not the exterior face of the lockplate required by the British beginning in 1768.     AL

[Fullstock longrifle]

If you had a rifle that needed a lock, and this one dropped right in, maybe.  Otherwise, too much money for what's left of it.

FK

[JTR]

    Did you read what it says about the lock? William Ketland,Sr. began his firearms company about 1755. W.Ketland on the interior face of the lockplate, not the exterior face of the lockplate required by the British beginning in 1768.     AL

So are you selling it?
It also mentions the same thing you did in another post regarding the Merrills as gunsmiths, and the one being hung by the britts.

As for the ebay lock, the internally signed ones are earlier as far as I know, but I don't know if it makes them pre-1768. Maybe JV Puleo can step in with this info, as he has done a lot of Ketland research.

I agree with the others here on value,,,, to optimistic unless you really needed it for a gun.

Then there's the comments about the lock comming off an old gun that one of the Merrills owned!!!!, Yikes, what happened to the old gun?

John

[A.Merrill]

    JTR, no I'm not selling it, I don't know who has it.  As for the other post, I was trying to find out if anyone has a gun made by Merrill or has seen any pic's of his guns in books. I'm a Merrill and I may like to build a copy of one.  As for the lock, I thought it was odd it has a rounded tail for a early lock since we have been told early Ketland lockplates had pointed tails like a Germanic lock. Now I have found out Benjamin Merrill made barrels and guns in N.Carolina.   Thanks for the reply.    AL

[flintriflesmith]

The lock looks early 19th century and the sideplate look like those Ketland used on some cheap trade/military pistols. The internal bridle is what is called a "half bridle" and in not an indicator of period---just cheaper than a full bridle and more expensive (better) than no bridle.

Gary

[JV Puleo]

I'm just in from Baltimore... and 8 hour drive for me but I took a look.
The description is pure fantasy. Its one of the cheap locks imported after 1792.
WK Sr. was not a gunmaker though I can forgive someone for thinking he was as that story has been circulating since the 1950s. The first Ketland gunmaker was Thomas Sr., born in 1737 and set up business in 1759 or 1760. His early work (probably the only Ketland marked guns that a member of the family probably worked on) was of a very high order - not export junk like this.

[A.Merrill]

    JV Puleo, thanks for the info. From what I understand you know everything about the Ketland business history and I thank you for clearing things up about this lock. Kind of a let down though, because it makes the guys story on eBay about the B. Merrill's rifles hard to believe.    AL

[JV Puleo]

I certainly don't know everything, although I wish I did. I do think that the story is coming into focus. the more you learn, the better you can understand and speculate about the bits you don't know. The ebay story has the major shortcoming of being based on a large amount of wishful thinking supported by references in old gun collecting books that were, in turn, based on guesses and wishful thinking.

That said, I handled a Ketland pistol yesterday that I believe really does date before 1780 and possibly as early as 1765-1770. Its most easily recognized feature is the convex surface lock and the lack of a pan bridle on an obviously good quality lock.