Stupidity and arrogance -- how to save my investment/

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

  Well I have a nice piece of very hard curly maple with a 46" OTR keyed barrel with a hooked breech... so far so good...and then I started to inlet the RE Davis late English lock with a very short bolster..... So I concentrated very hard on getting the touch hole located and then orienting the pan to the touch hole...very low installation of the lock as I wanted the barrel to show 1/16th more than 1/2 the width of the side......
And boy did I focus on that pan touchhole alignment... inlet away and then when I exposed the barrel to the bolster discovered I had the lock too low in the tail and nearly 1/2 inch too far forward.... no way for the lock bolt to pass behind the standing breech & hook.....

Measure twice, cut once.......not me! So now I have to cut plugs from some scrap, fill in the inlet and start inletting all over again.... This is an OK lesson .. I don't think I will make this mistake again...I will pay attention.. Didn't even think about how short the bolster is on this lock from Frizzen screw to just behind the fence!!  

So any advice on how to fill the lock mortise and sear hole and start over would be appreciated.... I would sure like to fix it so my stupidity doesn't show when all is said and done.

[Jim Kibler]

I'm sure there is some fix, but pictures will help a great deal in deciding what the best approach will be.  With care in correcting the issues I'm sure you will have a nice product in the end.

[Acer Saccharum]

I have seen plenty of tangs with a hole for the lock bolt to pass thru.....

Warning: You had better take that bolt out before you try to pry the barrel out of its channel, however. Many cracked stocks have resulted from this very issue.


Tim,

Tom

[Jim Kibler]

Breech plug bolsters are one thing, but a standing breech is a little different issue.

[Acer Saccharum]

The above won't apply to a hook breech. My arrogance and stupidity.


What about brazing a lug onto the back of the lockplate so you can place the lock bolt farther back? If it's a detachable pan, you could weld and extension onto that. Maybe the bridle and tumbler would be in the way if you go back too far.


Tom

[Acer Saccharum]

Jim, I am slowly coming around. Lag time on the computer and in the brain is additive.

[Acer Saccharum]

TIm, have you got room in the panel for a longer, more robust lock?

[heinz]

I worked on an original percussion once thath had a bolt plate built into it.  The  was L shaped, and bolted to the lock plate from the inside through the L leg  into the lock bolster,  The other leg was inlet into the stock out of reach of the lock spring and went rearward to clear the hook and standiing breech.  The female thread was thre for th lockbolt.  It was a Northern Ohio half stock and I thought ta first it was odd that it had two lock screws.  When I opened it up I found out why.  THe piece is a little like the lock bridle if that helps follow the description.. 

[Roger Fisher]

How far have you gone regards cutting the guts/innards out of the lock mortise?
Yes, photos would help.,,!  Filling the sear hole is simple - cut a close fitting plug - good glue insert and trim.  Cutting a plug for the bolster cut out should really be no sweat either. The bridle and tumbler can be traced from the original parts and set in to the mortice glued well and trimmed.  The lock plate the same thing.  The plate is the thing that may show a 'line' unless nicely done and dark finished.  In plain english put back the wood you removed and start from scratch.

Sounds as if I've been there and done that...Not exactly!  But close.

[westerner]

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

OK, no laughing i have a tender ego........



here is with lock

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Yeah thats it!!

[Bob Mac]

Tim, do you have any wood that you may have cut off from that area that you could use to make a filler? Maybe use the lock plate as a pattern and shape a piece that could be epoxied or glassed in place. Then reinlet the lock. I'm by no means a gunmaker but just thinking out loud. Bob

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

Roger That is the strategy I will follow. I am thinking about squaring up the edges/corners and then inletting plugs.... using stainable Elmers... I think the tough part to hide will be in front of the nose of the lock and under the tail of the lock as it has to come up as well as back........ how to inlet a lock the hardway!!

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

I do have the waste wood I sawed off.. I was thinking of plugging the holes for the guts, taking the lock panel to below final grade and then essentially replacing the whole face of the lock panel with a piece of the waste.

Good idea??

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

TIm, have you got room in the panel for a longer, more robust lock?

I have and could use an early Ketland, but really have this Davis lock as an integral part of the whole look...

[smart dog]

Hi Tim,
Before you go and fill anything, post a picture. I dealt with this exact problem on a gun with a hooked breech.  You can absolutely pass a lock screw through the female part of a hooked breech as long as the bolt is low and can slide under the oblique angle of the hook.  You file a groove in the underside of the hook to accommodate the bolt. Just make sure the lip and top of the hook is positioned correctly in the tang and there is a slight flat on the bottom of the hook where it meets the plug so that the hook locks in place in the tang. The rest of the hook can be shaped in any way you need it because it plays no role in anchoring the barrel.  If you do it right and file away enough of the hook to clear the bolt with some extra room for the hook to clear the bolt when tilted upward during removeal, you will be fine.

dave

[Tom Moore]

I'm going to suggest that you don't try to inlet wood that conforms to the curves of your inlet but to square off the area where the wood is to be replaced to a nice square, straight, and true patch that will allow thin mating lines that will be easy to match and much easier to hide. Pay very close attention to the grain and try to match to existing as best you can. It should be almost invisible. -Tom

[Dr. Tim-Boone]

OK Tom, that is what I thought. As you can see from the pics on the previous page there are several levels to fill..  Thanks   Any other ideas or words of caution.... I am all ears at the moment 

[smart dog]

Hi Tim,
I did not see the photo before I posted. Boy that is low in the tail!  I am afraid it will cause the architecture of the gun to look odd with so much wood between the barrel tang and the top of the lockplate. Perhaps, you should consider Roger's advice.  I am sorry.

dave

[billd]

I may be out in left field here, but what about welding a piece on the front of the lock plate and reshaping it?  I'm understanding the problem is you have to move the lock back.  It's easier to brown over the weld than than to hide the plug of wood.

Bill

[dave gross]

The experience and talent which populate the forum will give you many valid ideas for bailing yourself out of this little problem.  A couple of rifles ago I had just finished setting a Chambers lock...hadn't yet put in the lock bolts.....and late in the evening while doing some final shaping on the forestock failed to note that the lock had fallen from its inlet and landed in the trash can directly below.   Never noticed it was missing until a few days later when I thought lock bolts might be a good idea.   By this time the trash was long gone along with the lock...still have the cock and frizzen though..and try for more "snug" in the lock mortice. 

Dave Gross

[Swampwalker]

Not sure about alignment, but how about a screw from the lockplate threading into the side of the standing breech?  That would avoid all of the patching issue with re-positioning the lock.

[bgf]

I do have the waste wood I sawed off.. I was thinking of plugging the holes for the guts, taking the lock panel to below final grade and then essentially replacing the whole face of the lock panel with a piece of the waste.

Good idea??

That is the way I would think has the best chance of being presentable if you have to move the lock.  Like was said, square up the hole somewhat and make filling it easier on yourself.   If you do find someway to move the bolt, just remind yourself that there are way more things going on in there than you can see even from the plate and bridle -- I know this from finding out where a lock bolt can't go on a Durs Egg .  The tumbler arm goes way up into that "empty space" on the lock plate, and I think it goes up higher than a lock without a stirrup link on the mainspring -- your lock is probably similar.  Not trying to be a know it all (which would be ironic and untrue), just commiserating, as there are many similarities in the situation to what I went through (was worried about flash liner clearing breech plug/ bolt not passing through plug, etc.)!  You'll figure it out one way or the other, and fixing it will make you feel good.

[Ron Brimer]

Years ago TOO MANY< a rifle came into Robert Watts shop with the same problem, Bob cut the whole panel, glued on a new piece of wood, as suggested by others ti the forum . he used  epoxy mixed in powdered pigments ( after a stain test), re inletted, and covered the seam with carving. Unlessyou knew the seem was there you would never know. He patina ed the stock lightly all over
    Ron B     PS  I could tell you some good ones that was done by Bob and Hill Pierce.