Author Topic: Back Action Locks  (Read 14949 times)

Offline Fullstock longrifle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
Back Action Locks
« on: April 01, 2011, 06:12:59 AM »
Does anyone have any information on when back the action lock was first introduced?

FK

Offline Feltwad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 892
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2011, 03:06:26 PM »
FK

The true date for a back action lock is difficult too date,they were around in the flintlock period most were fitted to  over and under and also revolving barrel pistols The back action lock has we know today is mostly associated to George Lovell patent of 1835-36.Lancaster had a back -action tube lock of 1826 , I have also come across adverts which were has follows {D/B and S/B  in flintlock and percussion  fitted with backwork and every other kind of lock dated  1827]
enclosed are images of back action locks
Feltwad

The Back -action lock has we know today


Back-action lock1815


« Last Edit: April 01, 2011, 03:12:36 PM by Feltwad »

oakridge

  • Guest
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2011, 04:03:59 PM »
Feltwad,
1815 seems a bit early for that back-action percussion lock.

Offline Fullstock longrifle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2011, 04:21:50 PM »
I've seen a back action lock used on a flint period swivel breech Pennsylvania made (Reading area) rifle with wooden panels separating the barrels (an earlier feature), the rifle appears to be in it's original flintlock configuration.  I've always associated the back action lock to the late 1840's on. 

Offline Feltwad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 892
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2011, 06:18:01 PM »
Oakridge

The date 1815 was for the second image ,the top image are for  Lovell period of 1835-36.The style of the lock in the second image was originally a patch lock which  most were converted to percussion  using a detachable nose.
Feltwad

Offline G-Man

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2217
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2011, 06:31:12 PM »
There is a famous John Harman break-open breech loading flint fowler that was once in the Keith Neal Collection, from 1730, that has what appears to be a back action lock.  Actually, more "half a lock", as the frizzen and pan were separate from the plate, cock and internals and were integral parts to the brass cartridges that you would be pre-loaded so they were ready to drop in and fire.  That is, each cartridge had a frizzen and pan mounted on it. 

Guy 

Offline Curt J

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1521
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2011, 09:52:03 PM »
Don't forget that Davy Crockett was presented with a rifle with a back-action lock, and he died at the Alamo in 1836.

Offline Fullstock longrifle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2011, 10:46:37 PM »
Here are some pictures of the rifle I'm referring to.








Offline jdm

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1446
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2011, 11:42:29 PM »
Fullstock I like that rifle. Whats the cheek piece look like?   Sorry I'm not trying to get off subject.     JIM
JIM

Offline Feltwad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 892
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2011, 12:31:20 AM »
Fullstock
Looking at the image of your rifle I would say that it was built late in the percussion era or later from parts the lock is late percussion back action.Using this type of back action lock does work I enclose a similar  flintlock shotgun I built in the 1970,s using a back action lock.
Feltwad
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 09:28:47 AM by Feltwad »

Offline Tanselman

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1634
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2011, 02:06:51 AM »
The "when did back action locks appear" question has been frequently discussed. In prior discussions with Jerry Noble of southern longrifle fame, he thought they they had been around from back in the mid-flintlock era on swivel breech rifles. They were here before and after the conversion to percussion locks, used at first on swivels, perhaps on other "specialty" guns, then they became more acceptable on single barrel rifles. Their growing acceptance was supposedly based on the realization that it was a superior lock design over the front action lock and did not weaken the wrist area quite as much as a front action.

I have an original Bardstown, KY, rifle (superior quality) with a back action lock; the barrel has an original date of 1837 with the signature, and the lock was a commercial product purchased from the large Moses Dickson shop in Louisville, KY. Only thing it really proves is that back action locks were commercially available to gunmiths in Louisvllle, KY, by 1837. Louisville, with all its river traffic, was perhaps the most commercially progressive town in Kentucky at that time due to all the eastern "innovations" coming in by river boat on a daily basis. The Bardstown rifle mentioned above has a "sister" rifle that is virtually identical, but perhaps a year earlier based on butt architecture and incised details, and it also has a back action lock. Shelby Gallien
« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 06:21:20 AM by Tanselman »

Offline Dan'l 1946

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 628
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2011, 04:34:30 AM »
 Arne Hoff's book "Dutch Firearms", lists the Wender action as dating to 1640 or so. Many if not all of these guns used a back action type lock. On page 90 is a photograph of a period lock's innards and the mainspring is definitely in the back action position.
                                      Dan

Offline Fullstock longrifle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2011, 05:21:49 AM »
Feltwad, this isn't a newer made rifle, it has good age to it.  Here are some more photo's showing different angles.







« Last Edit: April 02, 2011, 06:37:41 AM by Fullstock longrifle »

Offline Feltwad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 892
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2011, 09:33:22 AM »
Fullstock

Yes I agree the  rifle has some age  but from what I can tell from the images I would say it is closer to 1900 than 1800.
Feltwad

Offline jdm

  • member 2
  • Hero Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1446
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2011, 03:07:58 PM »
I'm not with you on this one Feltwad. This swivel has some early features. Both barrels look rifled. Most of the later guns I have seen have one smooth and one rifled. Also the curl in the stock looks wavy with shrinkage .That's something not generally seen on guns after 1820 or so. Just my thoughts for what ever there worth.  Neat gun.    JIM
JIM

Offline Fullstock longrifle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2011, 03:43:55 PM »
I agree Jim, this rifle was made much earlier than the date given by Feltwad.  By the way, the upper finial on the patchbox is almost identical to the Adam Angstadt swivel breech patchbox shown on the cover of the Berks County book, but this one isn't engraved.

Offline Stan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 594
    • stanhollenbaughgunsmith.com
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2011, 07:20:48 PM »
Jim ! I saw this rifle at the auction & there is no doubt that it is right. Refinished yes.
It seemed to me to be a Berks co. rifle made in the 1830 to 1840 period.

Offline Fullstock longrifle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1070
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2011, 10:28:59 PM »
I agree Stan, 1830 - 1840 seems about right.

FK

Offline Dphariss

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9920
  • Kill a Commie for your Mommy
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2011, 10:45:23 PM »
Does anyone have any information on when back the action lock was first introduced?

FK

About the time the Flintlock was invented. Swivel breech guns, with back action locks, date to at least the 1640s.
See Lenk's book  "The Flintlock".
But they did not look like the back action import locks of the mid-19th Century.

Dan
He who dares not offend cannot be honest. Thomas Paine

copdoc

  • Guest
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2011, 04:57:34 AM »
Does anyone have any information on when back the action lock was first introduced?

FK

About the time the Flintlock was invented. Swivel breech guns, with back action locks, date to at least the 1640s.
See Lenk's book  "The Flintlock".
But they did not look like the back action import locks of the mid-19th Century.

Dan

Interesting discussion.  Here is one of the very early ones converted to percussion at some point. More pics are on earlier thread  I have a back action flint with a very large lock and will get some pics.  I have not been able to ID it.




blunderbuss

  • Guest
Re: Back Action Locks
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2011, 10:00:55 PM »
"The Handgun" by Boothroyd on page 68 last paragraph states"Back action locks became popular in the 1820's for both percussion pistols and rifles''.......