need cheap tanks for boiling while bluing a barrel

[rich pierce]

I'm ready to use a browning solution on my barrel that will turn blue with boiling.  What's the cheapest/easiest way of boiling the barrel?  Will I need to have sheet metal tanks welded up?  Can I use aluminum gutter or downspout or will the aluminum mess up color?

[T*O*F]

Rich,
You can boil water in a paper cup and it won't burn until all the water has boiled away.  Aluminum or galvanized gutter will work just for boiling and you can seal it with silicone.  Also plastic pipe rated for hot water use will probably work too because of the former statement.  I think the contamination only occurs if you are actually using bluing salts in your container.

[satwel]

Years ago, when copper was still cheap, I bought a 50" length of 2" copper pipe. I soldered a cap on one end. I clamp the pipe vertically in my portable workbench, with the capped end on floor of the garage. I stand two propane torches on the ground opposite each other with the nozzles about two inches from the side of the copper pipe. I suspend the barrel (with the muzzle plugged) in the pipe with an S hook fashioned from coat hanger. One end through the tangbolt hole and the other around a dowel placed across the top of the pipe. After boiling, I just lift the barrel out of the pipe (make sure the ceiling is high enough if indoors) by the coathanger and carry it into the basement, hang it from a joist to cool and card. No need to handle the barrel at all during the entire process.

[heinz]

Rich, I would only worry about picking up oil or some other contaminant that might interfere with your next rusting pass. If you boil the tank first with weak lye solution (less than 1%) it should degrease it.  I would beware of using any silicone sealer for that reason.  I do not have a tank right now, my last one I made of copper and soft soldered it after I folded the edges over.  Lasted until my son stole it.

[T*O*F]

I would beware of using any silicone sealer for that reason.

Uhhhh.....the sealer is on the outside of the tank, not on the inside.

[dannybb55]

Would not black iron pipe work? Cap the bottom, put a cup or two of wood ashes in and fill it up with water. a couple of days in the sun should work. Dump it out and rinse with a garden hose. With iron pipe you can leave the lower end in the forge to boil the blueing.
 Danny

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Cheap is a relative word Rich.  I had a stainless tank welded up (cost $150 ), and scrounged the aluminum for the top, and the steel sheet for the sides, but it works so well, the expense is insignificant.  The burner I made.

[James]

Regarding boiling the tank with a weak lye solution- Do not do this if the tank is aluminum- very corrosive reaction.

[BJH]

My" tank" is made from stainless steel pipe, with end caps welded on and cut in half. Using a home made burner set up. The whole tank never quite comes to a boil but it gets hot enough to convert the brown to blue-black. I only boil once after the browning is complete. I never had any problems or worries with contamination. I will often add a good bit of bakeing soda to the water to kill the residual acid in the steel's pores. I don't even suspend the barrel in the tank, just let her sit in the bottom. I will not touch the brown with my bare hands during any part of the process, from draw filing and sanding to carding and finally the boil.

[rich pierce]

Thanks boys, plenty of options!  Will start scrounging.

[BrentD]

There is a much easier and cheaper solution.  And I can guarentee that it will work.

A section of every-day aluminum raingutter will work just fine.  2 endcaps are needed and they can be bought with the gutter at Lowes or similar stores.  

The endcaps will need to be sealed in place and silicone caulk will work perfectly and last forever without contaminating anything.  However, the silicone is not a great adhesive and eventually the end caps will want to work loose.  The solution to this is 3 #6 sheet metal screws in each cap.  It will be obvious how to do this when you fit the caps on the guttering.  

Last, a small stand is needed to prevent is needed to keep the gutter from tipping, although it does have a flat bottom and this not an absolute requirement.  I made mine out of wood and just the right height that I can slip campstoves underneath.  

A piece of plywood for a cover will help it boil even faster however, you do have to be sure it doesn't burn if you really crank the heat and the wood hangs over the edge of the tank.  

I've blued a dozen barrels this way using the same tank.  I'm about to start another later this weekend.  

Brent

[Metalshaper]

went to Lowes in the heating/AC section. Found a 4' X half section of rectangular  ducting. brought that home, did some bending/folding to make a  long square end profile for the tank.  couple of SM screws sealed them and the seams with silicone and let it cure a couple of days.  Set it up over a camp stove and cranked it up!!
would work better over two camp stoves but I worked with what I had on hand!!


and since it was set up on my front porch, the neighbors got to be entertained as well!!

Respect Always
Metalshaper/Jonathan

[BrentD]

would work better over two camp stoves but I worked with what I had on hand!!

Ebay is your friend

[heinz]

James, could point about the lye and aluminum.  I was not thinking about aluminum
TOF, If the sealer is on the outside, and the water does not come in touch with it, you would not contaminate the water but then you not need the sealer.  I know better than offer advice here.

[BrentD]

a silcone caulk simply does not affect the bluing.  I have abundant proof of that. 

But I think I'd more than hesitate before I threw plastic pipe on the stove Dave - even zinc coated pipe may given off toxic fumes, but plastic pipe is pretty much a sure bet - an yeah, I boiled water in a paper cup.  Plastic isn't paper.

[T*O*F]

If the sealer is on the outside, and the water does not come in touch with it, you do not need the sealer

Water leaks out of cracks in containers, silicone doesn't leak in.

Anyway, as I first stated, it's a simple matter of physics.  You can boil water in any container that has a melting point higher than 212 degrees.  The possibilities are multitudinal.

[Dphariss]

I'm ready to use a browning solution on my barrel that will turn blue with boiling.  What's the cheapest/easiest way of boiling the barrel?  Will I need to have sheet metal tanks welded up?  Can I use aluminum gutter or downspout or will the aluminum mess up color?

When I needed a tank I found a piece of 4" square thin wall tube in Steve Brooks junk pile. We cut one "flat" out and used pieces of this to weld up the ends. I heat it over a 2 burner propane camp stove. Using sheet steel covers I have picked up here and there.
Its a little short for long barrels though and I have a 45" coming that I will need to blue so I will need to make a longer one and will likely need another burner.
Its FAR uglier than Taylor's. But has done quite a few barrels.

Dan

[heinz]

Taylor's tank is awesome. 
Hershel House used a section of rain gutter for a long time.  If you can find the sheet metal or copper sheet you can solder the end caps up, just bend a flange on them first so you have a good contact area.

I have never put end caps on aluminum so I don't know how to do that. 

Several folks have commented that silicone does not seem to contaminate the boiling water.  That is good news but it may be dependent on the solution used.  The rusting solution I use is very sensitive to oil so if it were me, and I were using a glued together tank, I would try it out first.

If your are using one of the old traditional browning formulas, you may need to neutralize to stop after rusting.  I use a warm 5% lye bath for that so I would opt for sheet metal or copper tanks. 

The tank need to be study enough to stand being moved around a bit while full, and deep enough for the same reason.  Maybe if you offered to pay the shipping you could borrow Taylor's :-).  I have used 16 gauge HR steel and  16 and 18 gauge copper.  The Copper got a doubled over lip and flange to stiffen it up.  I use an old "wash boiler" two burner gas rig for heat.  I have done it over a fire but that was too dirty.

[Captchee]

 Dan beat me to it .
 my tanks are 4 inch  square tubing ,  i cut one side off and then welded that onto the ends .
 i  have one for my boil tank  another for my de- rusting tank and another for  my iron bath tank

[Robby]

A lot of good ideas here, I use a piece of channel with caps welded on. As an aside to this, how do you fellows seal up your barrels? I make a pine plug, soak it with wax and a heat gun, and tap in tight. I drill the touch hole when I am done. I haven't done one with a liner. How do you plug them when using a liner?
Robby

[BrentD]

To plug a bore, you can buy neoprene expandable plugs in most decent hardware stores.  They come in a variety of sizes and can be ground a bit smaller if one that is just the right size cannot be found. 

Brent

[Leatherbelly]

 Gents,
 Real cool ideas,all. I think if you look back in the archives, you'll find a finished product that Dave Raze did. I think he used an extra fine brass wire wheel to get this desired finish. One of the nicest I've seen.Wish I'd have saved that one. Maybe Dave will chime in.
 Taylor blued my Beck and it came out fantastic. Better then any factory finish.  Wish I had pictures.  hint hint

[Dave Faletti]

I don't know what type of silicone sealers people are thinking of but the better automotive ones are used at those temps. It shouldn't give off anything once its cured.   

[BrentD]

Dave, any of them will work, every day aquarium silicone caulking will work too. 

[Z. Buck]

to the best of my knowledge, silicone does not present a oil contamination problem, has a very high temp rating, and cures by acetic acid evaporating out. in my modern gunsmithing business i regularly use silicone plugs for barrels, they are sold by midway and brownells (last time i checked, i only bought them once and they keep working) so i guess that sort of answers to questions posted