Graver starter set?

[uplandhunter]

I just finished watching Jack Brooks video on engraving. He does seems to state what would be a good starting set of tools (sizes) and I was hoping for some insight from every one on here.
he talks about, shows and demonstrates:
Square graver
Shading tool graver
wriggling tool graver (spelling?)
round bottom graver

[Dave B]

I first started out with a simple set like what Jack recommends. As you progress you can add more tools. I know that you really can do the majority of what you need with that basic set. I like using an onglett for doing lettering now but started with the square. It is easier to keep the line thickness more consistent due to the the steeper side profile. Having not watched Jacks program did he talk about push graving at all? I use it for shading  and small details and have a set of the same as my chisel graver. I have some liners but don't use them as much as I used to. If you keep at it you will slowly build the number of tools because you need something special. Even though I now have a whole bunch of both types now I still find my self having only a couple favorites I  always reach for first. Regardless of what type of tools you get you must get a good sharpening system. Get the best you can afford. I was told about diamond  sharpening plate in two different grits, 600 and  1200 talk about sweet. I was also told that my carborundum combo stone was dished if I had used it at all and couldn't believe it till I used the 600 grit diamond plate to grind back the face of the stone to flat. I can put an edge that wont quit on all my cutting tools now. My engraving really improve when I finally understood how to properly sharpen my gravers.

[bama]

Here are what I think is a minimum to start with. A 90 degree square, a 120 degree, a couple of different sizes of flats, a couple of sizes of round bottom and a onglette. But none of these will be of any use until you know how to sharpen them. A good sharpening system is a must, but you got to know how use it and what you looking for as far as the point is concerned. You can't cut a decent line until you learn how to sharpen your gravers.

Engraving becomes much more enjoyable when you have properly sharpened gravers. Go to the engravers cafe or Steve Lindays web site for good info on sharpening. Lots of good info on both of these sights.

Another good site is GRS, all kinds of tools and sharpening systems but they are not cheap.

[Dphariss]

I just finished watching Jack Brooks video on engraving. He does seems to state what would be a good starting set of tools (sizes) and I was hoping for some insight from every one on here.
he talks about, shows and demonstrates:
Square graver
Shading tool graver
wriggling tool graver (spelling?)
round bottom graver

A square and a flat will do for starters. For practice you will not initially even need the flat. The square will do almost everything needed on a Kentucky in most cases. The flat is handy but until you learn how to use the square its not needed.
I would rent Lynton Mckenzie's  DVD set or buy it.
He was a world class engraver and he cuts through a lot of BS concerning gravers and equipment. Most of the "beginners sets" have far too much stuff in them that largely useless especially for engraving kentucky rifles.
http://smartflix.com/univstore/one/15

The 3 DVD set retails for $179 but rents for a lot less.
Dan

[Ed Wenger]

All the suggestions given are good advice.  Like so many other topics, if you ask ten guys, you'll get ten different answers, none of which are "wrong". 

The one single thing that has helped me, ten fold, is what Bama and Dave mentioned; learn how to sharpen the graver.  I can't emphasize this enough.  After I was able to accomplish this, engraving became a joy, and not the evil demon to be feared.

I confess, I use the sharpening templates by Lindsay, which takes all the guess work out of sharpening a graver.  I don't remember what I paid for them, but their worth every cent to me.  There are others, like GRS, that have sharpening systems as well.

      Ed

[smart dog]

Hi Uplandhunter,
I posted some thoughts on learning to engrave a few months ago that might help. 

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=14623.0

dave

[Blacksmoke]

Bama - is correct in advising against a "beginner set".  These are usually of lesser quality and made from tool steel and not HS.   You will want you graver's to be "high speed" steel or carbide.   Most historical graving done on longrifle was done with a 90 degree square graver.   That is all you will need to start with - others can be added as you learn the basic cuts for depth and width.  Sharpening is of utmost importance!  I sharpened for most of my gun making career by "eye" - then I discovered the GRS honing device 3 yrs. ago -  What a difference!!  How I ever engraved before I do not know!  With the power hone you will get exact angles and mirror finishes on the cutting surfaces of your graver.  I do not recommend the pneumatic graver's for the beginner however.  Learn to controll the graver with the chasing hammer first then graduate to the pneumatics if you want.  That's my advice,   Hugh Toenjes

[uplandhunter]

thanks guys. where would you recommend me buy the 90 degree graver and sharpening system?

[Ken G]

I'm learning so I can't make any suggestions other than to agree with what has been said and suggest a sharpening system right out of the gate.  I piddled off and on for a year or so and was really not making any progress until I bought the Lindsay sharpening templates.  Huge difference!  I'm still not an acccomplished engraver but it took one HUGE variable out of the learning process. 
Note: You must use the the graver blanks Lindsay sells with his templates.  I think they are 3/32".   

http://www.airgraver.com/sharpening.htm

[Ky-Flinter]

Note: You must use the the graver blanks Lindsay sells with his templates.  I think they are 3/32".   

http://www.airgraver.com/sharpening.htm

Not exactly.  While Lindsay's standard collet is 3/32", he will substitute a 1/8" collet on request.  Then you can use 1/8" HSS lathe bits from Enco, Wholesale Tool or others.

-Ron

[Ken G]

KY,
Thanks for correcting that.  I did not know he offered two collet sizes. 
Ken

[David Rase]

I engraved with 3 engravers for close to 20 years.  I bought 3 die sinkers chisels from Brownells and sharpened one square, the square one does 90%of my work, one flat or chisel, for doing borders and one round bottom which I have only used once or twice.  When my eyes grew cataracts I had a hard time seeing the heel when I sharpened and bought the Lindsey engraving system.  After cararact surgery I have went back to using my trusty old die sinkers chisels.  I love the Lindsey system, I just need to get some practice time on the tools and I will probably retire the die sinkers chisels forever.
DMR 

[uplandhunter]

I am intersted in doing just basic engraving so it nice to know that I don't need a lot of tools or need to spend a ton of money.