Making entry pipes

[Jerry V Lape]

I searched the tutorials and other subjects but found nothing specific on how to make the entry pipe.  I have already made the other pipes which is rather easy, but efforts to properly form a entry pipe have not worked out satisfactorily.  Would appreciate some guidance on this. 

[Dave B]

The tools to make the entry pipe are simple.
I have a kit that I have put together for doing ramrod pipes. The tool on the far left side is the tool I bought from Our very own Dave Rase Way back at my very first Oregon gun makers fair. He presented on ram rod pipe making and I was so impressed I bought the extra set of tools that he had brought to pass around. the entry pipe is formed justlike the rest of the pipes its just left with a rear tab extension. I like leaving a slight radius to the rear pipe to tab transition. It can tear if you dont when you drive the mandrel into the back end of the tube. You just clamp the tab in the vice at the end of the jaws edge. The bump up mandrel is driven into the back side of the entry pipe and the tab raises up with the final seating of the mandrel. It does require a slight tapping down of the tang section to the mandrel. Now you only need to form the flats if you want them. You can make the extra bump up by using a two part form and a rounded punch. Here are my tools.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/DaveB44/DSCN2756.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/DaveB44/DSCN2758.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/DaveB44/DSCN2757.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/DaveB44/DSCN3038.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/DaveB44/DSCN3039.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/DaveB44/DSCN3040.jpg

[bgf]

Here's a relevant tutorial, also:
http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=687.0

I use a carriage bolt (same diameter as ramrod) to form the entry pipe -- bend the pipe part around the bolt with the head of the bolt keeping the tang a slightly larger diameter, then you can use the head of the bolt as a peen to further round and shape the tang.  A simple piece of round stock with two different diameters along its length would work even better.  I file all the detail, but you could stamp it into thinner metal as well, as shown in that tutorial.

[Jerry V Lape]

I have seen those before.  I tried with a metal mandrel to make the one piece but need to rework the mandrel.  How do you determine the offset of the tang above the pipe itself.  Won't this be critical in determining thickness of the bottom of the forend?  I have looked at some of the commercial cast pipes and they seem to have very little offset, only about 1/16 to 3/32"which seems inadequate.  Couple of them had the tang angled such that the offset dissappeared about 1/2 way back on the tang.  Appreciate the help, looking for a little more on the offset. 

[Dave B]

Jerry you are right the off set is not great. Most originals have very little off set. My mandrel has a 3/8 pilot and a 1/2" body. The body I have filed flats on one portion so I can make flats on the return by tapping down the brass to the flats.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/DaveB44/Lanc-WestPAtopviewentrypipe.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/DaveB44/DSCN4760.jpg

[J. Talbert]

Interestingly, I have a set of wood blocks nearly identical to Dave's, that I made years ago before the internet.  I have used them successfully multiple times.  However the last entry thimble I made was using a mandrel like the one that Jack Brooks shows here:
http://www.jsbrookslongrifles.com/theclassroom.htm.  Jack's little tutorial is worth reading whichever method you choose to use.

Jeff

[Dphariss]

This is making some pipes for a a friend.
As usual I did not take all the pictures I should have.

Layout lines and cut. File all edges smooth and straight. Leave the mark on the work to help get the edge filed to the line.


Bend tabs 90 degrees then start forming the tube. This is an upper pipe but process is the same for entry pipe though care must be taken to keep the tail well centered on the entry pipe.


The punch is made from hardened and tempered tool steel. It still acquires some dents but holds its shape well. I use it in cold forming trigger shoes as well.










I have one made of wood as well.











Check alignment and bend as needed





Twist and form tail









Make sure everything is fairly square.



I made this set for a friend. They are silver soldered. I did not do the final filing etc since he needs to finalize the tail etc to his needs.


Dan

[bgf]

Dan,
Thanks for posting this.  Please put it in tutorials.  That is almost exactly how I do it, but I just use a round headed bolt instead of the punch you have.  Once the pipe is formed, I clamp the tabs in the vise with the bolt inside (head toward tab) and work the skirt or tang over the bolt head with a hammer, then take out the whole thing and finish off the inside of the offset with the head of the bolt, just like you use the punch.  I know the bolt may be seen as a hack, but I was just practicing with it trying to figure out what kind of mandrel to build, and it came out well enough to use.

[Dave B]

Here are some original entry pipes for comparison.






This last one is the top view of the previous one. As you can see there really is very little off set to the transition and there is a slight angle to the return to the entry pipe axis.

[Jerry V Lape]

Dphariss,

What is the brass thickness of the tailpipe shown in your tutorial?  Maybe .060 or more? 

I learned a lot from what everyone has contributed on this discussion.  One of the things I should have thought of was filing the edges square and accurate to help close the pipe seam.  And using a punch to shape the transition area will certainly help.  Now that I have seen these suggestions I know that some of the originals I have looked at were formed on mandrels with flats and rings.  Have to work on that later.  I think I will file up the shapes this time as that will match the handwork on the other two pipes already made. 

By asking questions as I work through this build I have already learned much as I expand my building skills from assembling and finishing purchased parts to doing as much of the actual fabrication (along with making the jigs/tools).

Thanks much for all the help guys. 

[Dphariss]

Dphariss,

What is the brass thickness of the tailpipe shown in your tutorial?  Maybe .060 or more? 

I learned a lot from what everyone has contributed on this discussion.  One of the things I should have thought of was filing the edges square and accurate to help close the pipe seam.  And using a punch to shape the transition area will certainly help.  Now that I have seen these suggestions I know that some of the originals I have looked at were formed on mandrels with flats and rings.  Have to work on that later.  I think I will file up the shapes this time as that will match the handwork on the other two pipes already made. 

By asking questions as I work through this build I have already learned much as I expand my building skills from assembling and finishing purchased parts to doing as much of the actual fabrication (along with making the jigs/tools).

Thanks much for all the help guys. 

Its 14 ga. Tom wanted them heavy. I like .040 or heavier. I think the Swivel Breech pipes were made for .040". I think its easier to form raised rings on .040. But they are weaker when flats are filed on them.



No, I did not buy a 3x8 foot sheet its a cut from a supplier.
 
It must be annealed before any bending is done. But is "cartridge brass" and forms very well.
Dan