where have all the parts gone

[camerl2009]

so for now my double barrel project is at a stand still becuse i dont have any of the parts i need and TOW is out of stock on the breech plugs i need and the trigger

the breech plugs is what i need most becuse i cant make them my self as i have no lathe im starting to get mad becuse thay said thay would have more in last month and thay dont

same go's for the barrels ive had a few people wanting rifles made but no barrels to do so 

[rich pierce]

Call around.  Log Cabin Shop, Muzzleloader Building Supply, R.E Davis, etc.

[FlintFan]

The problem is that the same couple of casting suppliers are the only source for almost every muzzleloading parts retailer in the country.  When they start dropping the ball on delivery, everyone falls behind.  I guess TOW is starting to develop their own line of castings, but it sounds like it can be years before they can fill all the backlog of needed molds.  Until then, the best advice is call around and see who happens to have what you need in stock.  Good luck. 

[Mark Elliott]

If parts are hard to come by, make your own.  That is what a real gunsmith does.   I make more and more of my own parts all the time.   I have been forging and filing for a long time.  I have just about everything together to start casting mounts, and I am starting to make my own lock parts on the way to making complete handmade locks.   Barrels are the only thing left and there are good resources now on how to do that the original way.   The good folks down at the Colonial Williamsburg gunshop for the past 45+ years, mainly Wallace Gusler and Gary Brumfield, figured it all out for us.  Don't let all that hard work go to waste.

[dannybb55]

Time to sell iron mounted rifles, I guess.

[camerl2009]

If parts are hard to come by, make your own.  That is what a real gunsmith does.   I make more and more of my own parts all the time.   I have been forging and filing for a long time.  I have just about everything together to start casting mounts, and I am starting to make my own lock parts on the way to making complete handmade locks.   Barrels are the only thing left and there are good resources now on how to do that the original way.   The good folks down at the Colonial Williamsburg gunshop for the past 45+ years, mainly Wallace Gusler and Gary Brumfield, figured it all out for us.  Don't let all that hard work go to waste.

i dont have a lathe or the money for all the tools to start casting steel

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Cam, you must have a hack saw and some files.  I made a lot of guns with these, and an electric drill, a couple of files and a vise - my first lathe.  There are many other parts suppliers - Tip Curtis comes to my mind, such as it is.

[Glenn]

so for now my double barrel project is at a stand still becuse i dont have any of the parts i need and TOW is out of stock on the breech plugs i need and the trigger

the breech plugs is what i need most becuse i cant make them my self as i have no lathe im starting to get mad becuse thay said thay would have more in last month and thay dont

same go's for the barrels ive had a few people wanting rifles made but no barrels to do so  

I understand your frustrations.  It is really sad there are no more than 1 or 2 places in the country that produce the parts we so often need.  One suggestion I can offer is to keep your eyes on E-bay, GunBroker, and some of the other supplier web sites.  Recently there have been some breech plugs come available on E-bay.  Do a search on CVA, muzzleloader parts, blackpowder parts, etc., and they will pop-up from time to time.

I hope that helps you out.

[Bill of the 45th]

And don't forget Troy Roope, at Stonewall Creek Outfitters, has a large inventory, and Barbie Garan at Buckeye Barrels for Rice and other barrels.

Bill

[camerl2009]

yea it seems TOW is the only place that sells the double breech plugs and id like to have thing done by pheasant season(oct. 26)

but it seems that TOW keeps stalling

[Mark Elliott]

I'm with Taylor.   The old long rifles didn't have breech plugs cast from steel and turned on a lathe.   They were forged from wrought iron to rough shape and then filed the rest of the way to have the threads cut with a die.   There is more than once way to skin a cat.    I am making a tumbler right now the old fashioned way which necessitated making a tumbler mill from a 12" flat bastard file.   I have a heat treat oven which makes the annealing, hardening, and tempering easier, but a gas torch or forge (gas or coal) plus a hacksaw, files and a drill press will do the job.   If you are good with a file and have the right ones,  you can make all sorts of things to very exacting tolerances(a couple thousands of an inch is fairly easy).   The tumbler itself was forged from 3/4" oil hardening drill rod from the local hardware store.   Files (of one sort or another) do the rest of the work.   You could make your breech plugs from hardware store weldable steel or order something a little better from any number of sources.   Then you just have to get to work with a hacksaw, files and die.    I am pretty sure you can order the die from MSC.

[JDK]

If you are not dead set on those particular plugs and breech/tang you should be able to make your own quite easily.  I believe it was in recreating the ML Double Barrel Shotgun that he made the plugs out of cut off bolts the the rear portions were filed into hood and that style of tang would not be hard to fashion with hammer, saw and file.  If you want to cheat, start with some heavy angle iron so the bend is made for you.  You can do it.  Hammer, cut, file, hammer, cut, file, repeat.  Good Luck, J.D.K.

[JTR]

but it seems that TOW keeps stalling

Cam, I doubt TOW is stalling, just more likely that their supplier has not shipped any to them. I'm sure they are just as irritated in that they none to sell.

Other guys here have pointed out the alternatives for you, so no need for me to add to them, other than to say that getting busy making them yourself is a lot more constructive than spending time complaining here.
Besides, look at the bragging rights you'll have by making the breech plugs yourself!

John

[camerl2009]

but it seems that TOW keeps stalling

Cam, I doubt TOW is stalling, just more likely that their supplier has not shipped any to them. I'm sure they are just as irritated in that they none to sell.

Other guys here have pointed out the alternatives for you, so no need for me to add to them, other than to say that getting busy making them yourself is a lot more constructive than spending time complaining here.
Besides, look at the bragging rights you'll have by making the breech plugs yourself!

John

there is no alternatives becuse the TOW breech plug make the gun slimer at the locks. and i dont have a lathe and mill to copy them you need a mill and lathe for any accuracy

[Captchee]

As was said  good set of files will   form just about everything you need ..

 One of the thinks that always has amazed me is  that folks think they need X . but they never realize that Z can be turned into XOR that Z is the same  thing as X
  Many years back when ToW started  offering SXS plugs and standing breech’s , I to waited for a  couple months  for the parts .then when they came I realized that  the plugs were not special and I could have used any number of  plugs that were in stock  when I placed my order .
Not to mention I could have  made a lot better fitting standing breech .
  Recently a  fella I know even made a very nice standing breech for his 10 gage SXS flintlock , from the receiver of the  gun he used the barrels from . The plugs he made by hand . No lath , no mill .

 When it comes to triggers .
 If you look at  the triggers ToW sells , they are nothing more then a set of earthly  side lock cartridge trigger . Run down to any local gunsmith and  they  should have a set  or two laying around  in their junk or parts boxes . Now granted that the trigger bars will already be  fitted for  the piece they came off of . Thus most will also be set up for the  bar type safety’s .  No big deal .
 Those old trigger sets  run between 5-10 bucks . I have even paid as low a 2.00 for them .
 All that’s needed is for the trigger bars to be built up and re shaped . Or pull the pin , remove the triggers and replace them with a couple  from ToW . Costs around 12.00.
 So for around 20.00 and alittle work , you can have a whole lot nicer set of triggers  then what you will get from ToW .
Also , it should be noted that depending on what your building , what ToW is selling you , may not be the correct  items .
IE the breech plugs are not  interlocking. They are not  of a step design . The standing breech could very well be of the completely wrong design .  Even the trigger set  is of a later design  where what you   may need is an early design  that only has a trigger plate , with the  triggers pinned into the stock .

 As to casting . I got tiered  some years back of suppliers only selling the same  castings . So I  got into doing my own sand castings  for brass , sterling silver and such .  
 While I bought  a  foundry and such . I could have just as easily made my own   for a fraction of the price . Do some research . There are any number of places that sell supplies  , kits and such .  You can even read up on  it  and find any number of sites  that tell you how to make your own setups  to do your own casting .

[Captchee]

but it seems that TOW keeps stalling

Cam, I doubt TOW is stalling, just more likely that their supplier has not shipped any to them. I'm sure they are just as irritated in that they none to sell.

Other guys here have pointed out the alternatives for you, so no need for me to add to them, other than to say that getting busy making them yourself is a lot more constructive than spending time complaining here.
Besides, look at the bragging rights you'll have by making the breech plugs yourself!

John

there is no alternatives becuse the TOW breech plug make the gun slimer at the locks. and i dont have a lathe and mill to copy them you need a mill and lathe for any accuracy

seriously ? , think about what you just said .

now is this the set your waiting for ? ?


  have you compaired the above parts to  what your wanting to build  ?
 Those are not interlocking plugs .  Your going to have to  add a center rib section  between them anyway .
 not to mention depending on the piece your  thinking about , the step  may not even be close
 here are some exsamples  for you  to compair to






 ask yourself , what size  is the outside Diameter of the barrels I  “ HAVE”
 If its 1 inch , then a 1 inch across the flats octagon  plug can be  filed round to fit your barrels .
 The step you see ,  is nothing  but a filed down  area of the plug so as to create a step in the breech

 If you don’t want to do that , call the a local metal shop .  Get a price on turning you a couple  plugs .
 They don’t need to make the hooks or anything . Just the simple plug  that’s long enough for you to cut your own  hooks . It wont take them more then 20minutes to turn  and thread them for you
 While your there , pick up a scrap of ¾ angle stock  for your standing breech .

Truly sir what you are looking at is nothing special .
 here is a photo of the very first Caplock ,standing breech and  fitted plugs  for  first SXS that i  built while doing a artical review of Bill Brockways book many years back  . nothing was used other then a file and a drill press to make the plugs . the standing breech was made  from a .50 cent piece of 3/8 angle  stock .





here are some work in progress photos of  the flint 10 gage SXS i mention in the previous post .  Jess made the plugs by hand , without a mill or lathe  and the  the standing breech was made  by modifing  the old cartradge reciever.
triggers are also from the same cartradge  gun  used for parts

[camerl2009]

all i have is a small drill press and some files but i'll see what i can do

now i need a new set of barrels anyway becuse the ones i got from Taylor one of the welds is not intact any more about 6" from the muzzle the barrels are 30" i have to cut 3" from the back to get rid of the chambers and then i need to get rid of the weld thats not good that will make them a little short so these are scrap 

[bob in the woods]

Troy at Stonewall Creek outfitters is a wonderful resource for parts. Also, Tip Curtis.
Give them a try. For myself, the hardest part re making what I need , is visualizing what it will look like.
That usually means drawing it out first. All the parts for one gun I made were hand made using a wood stove, bellows, small anvil, piece of train rail, a steel wedge inset into a stump [ for hot cutting], vise
and many files !  Of course, this is not an economical way to do things if you have already committed to a price with a customer, but , for my own use, I don't bother with the amount of time it will take me to do something. As far as the plugs you require, I'm certain you could make them from bolts and angle iron.
Or even bar and angle iron. Concerning accuracy...my friend is an English trained [ ie old guy ! ]
and they had to file a cube from a piece of material,as part of their training. The level of accuracy attainable
with files or hand tools is simply amazing.

[Captchee]

all i have is a small drill press and some files but i'll see what i can do

now i need a new set of barrels anyway becuse the ones i got from Taylor one of the welds is not intact any more about 6" from the muzzle the barrels are 30" i have to cut 3" from the back to get rid of the chambers and then i need to get rid of the weld thats not good that will make them a little short so these are scrap  

 do you have Bill Brockways book ?
 if not i suggest getting it . it will save you a whole lot of heartache
 It will lead you through  fixing the  lose Rib as well as making the plugs  so that you don’t have to  shorten the barrel set unless you want to .
 building locks ,  proper layout . basicly  most everything you need to know .
 it "IS" worth  every penny  Plus ,, of its cost

 Nether the cap lock I showed  as part of my first build  OR the Flintlock Jess was building , had shortened barrels . The breech plugs are made so as to  fill the  cartridge chambers   and face to  either the forcing cone or depending on the manufacture of your barrels  the face / shoulder of the chamber .
 this will require a minimum load  charge  that’s based on how large you make the improved  breech cavity

[camerl2009]

[/quote]

 do you have Bill Brockways book ?
 if not i suggest getting it . it will save you a whole lot of heartache
 It will lead you through  fixing the  lose Rib as well as making the plugs  so that you don’t have to  shorten the barrel set unless you want to .
 building locks ,  proper layout . basicly  most everything you need to know .
 it "IS" worth  every penny  Plus ,, of its cost

 Nether the cap lock I showed  as part of my first build  OR the Flintlock Jess was building , had shortened barrels . The breech plugs are made so as to  fill the  cartridge chambers   and face to  either the forcing cone or depending on the manufacture of your barrels  the face / shoulder of the chamber .
 this will require a minimum load  charge  that’s based on how large you make the improved  breech cavity
[/quote]

its not a lose rib its a crack in a weld on the barrel look at my post in buliding a double barrel flintlock

[Gaeckle]

so for now my double barrel project is at a stand still becuse i dont have any of the parts i need and TOW is out of stock on the breech plugs i need and the trigger

Your trigger problems can be solved as there are three lots of old triggers on E-Bay at the moment. Type in Muzzloader Parts in the search and you should see them. These look to be triggers used in double barrel shotguns. You will need to make a plate and you should be able to do that.

[camerl2009]

so for now my double barrel project is at a stand still becuse i dont have any of the parts i need and TOW is out of stock on the breech plugs i need and the trigger

Your trigger problems can be solved as there are three lots of old triggers on E-Bay at the moment. Type in Muzzloader Parts in the search and you should see them. These look to be triggers used in double barrel shotguns. You will need to make a plate and you should be able to do that.

i looked on ebay and there is nothing there for muzzleloader parts the triggers are not the big problem right now

[Captchee]

 do you have Bill Brockways book ?
 if not i suggest getting it . it will save you a whole lot of heartache
 It will lead you through  fixing the  lose Rib as well as making the plugs  so that you don’t have to  shorten the barrel set unless you want to .
 building locks ,  proper layout . basicly  most everything you need to know .
 it "IS" worth  every penny  Plus ,, of its cost

 Nether the cap lock I showed  as part of my first build  OR the Flintlock Jess was building , had shortened barrels . The breech plugs are made so as to  fill the  cartridge chambers   and face to  either the forcing cone or depending on the manufacture of your barrels  the face / shoulder of the chamber .
 this will require a minimum load  charge  that’s based on how large you make the improved  breech cavity
[/quote]

its not a lose rib its a crack in a weld on the barrel look at my post in buliding a double barrel flintlock
[/quote]
+


Edit
 ok  well it apears  that you know all you need to know, best of luck yo you

[Glenn]

[/quote]i looked on ebay and there is nothing there for muzzleloader parts the triggers
are not the big problem right now [/quote]

You'll have to check on a daily basis.  Try GunBroker also.  Dixie Gun Works also used to sell lots of hard-to-find parts.

I have a set of short twin shotgun barrels I bought off E-bay several years ago and I've needed the proper breech plug and related assembly for a while now, but until I see and examine a lot of double barrel shotguns I'm going to wait on tackling that project.  I need to learn more about it before I go in there and start to screw things up.  I'm sure I'll find a design that I like and of course, as my luck often goes, I wont be able to find the EXACT same thing I like so before it's done I'll wind up fabricating my own parts.  This is fine, but I need to make sure I use the proper strength of steel, etc., etc., or find somebody that will do it for me.

For safety, I'd rather spend a few more bucks and get the right pieces made by somebody else instead of going it on my own and creating something inferior that my limited knowledge otherwise thinks is acceptable.

This may be the same case with you for now but whatever you do don't quit ... keep going.  

[huckfinn]

Does anyone have a phone number for Tip Curtis?  I only have his address and am pretty sure he doesn't have a web site.  Have ordered a Hessian Jaeger barrel from track and am tired of waiting.  Just got my JLR barrel from Rice.  Wow!  It is nice.  Thanks!