Al Martin doesn't just build Lehigh's

[Bill of the 45th]

For your viewing pleasure, a couple pic's of an Al Martin bench copy of a Chambersburg rifle in .50 cal. with a 47" barrel.





The bench copy is of a John Mewertier of Chambersburg Pa., and was originally commissioned by Marlin Yeager.  I was lucky enough to get it at auction last month.  Hoping to shoot it this coming week, if the weather cooperates.  Al was good enough to share the background on the rifle, and give me the info I needed to grab it.  Though I like to name my guns after females, this one is Silver Cup.  It's what Marlin liked to chew.  Sure do love long barreled, well balanced rifles.

Bill

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Very nice Bill.  A couple of your pics didn't materialize...came up as a blue ?  Love to see more of this one.

[Bill of the 45th]

Taylor, you might try reloading.  If the weather breaks, I'll take it outside, and fire up the Nikon, and get some more.  These were from the auction catalog.

Bill

[Don Getz]

Boy, that's an old Allen gun.   Doe's anyone see anything wrong with this gun?    I will let you all mull on this for a while, then will point out a problem, not really a problem, but something that was not done right.   Bill Shipman.......you're pretty good at this........what's wrong with it?.............Don

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

I know...it's not in my locker!

[Leatherbelly]

Just something about these long barreled rifles that brings out the "wood" in me!  I've only seen one Virginia rifle, an early type and it had a big english lock. This one of Bill's looks late Ketland( I love this lock).As all of Allen's rifles: stunning!

[Don Getz]

Are you guys still looking?   I have seen other guns done this way.....it's an architectural thing.    As a hint.........Bill, do you
sometimes feel you are "reaching" for the trigger?.............Don

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

Don, are you suggesting that the bottom line of the stock is too flat to the end of the lock panel, and then curves too much into the butt stock?  I don't know if I'd label that as a mistake, but I don't have a lot of exposure to originals.

[B Shipman]

Don, the trigger is set to far forward to the sear. Way to far forward. Not an architectural mistake but a mistake of geometry. The solution is to fool with the tumbler. But then it becomes touchy.

[Don Getz]

Answer:   The barrel is too far forward.     When this happens, you get a section in the rear lock area that runs straight
back from the breech end of the barrel and then bends down thru the wrist.   You have basically moved the wrist of the
gun back, about 1" to 1 1/2".   You may not think that makes any difference, but, when it happens you will find yourself
reaching for the trigger.   I don't think Allen built this gun totally from scratch.   I would be willing to bet that he had someone pre-shape the butt and inlet the barrel.   This is usually where this type of situation happens........you are allowing someone else, who is not really a gun builder, to determine where that barrel should be in the stock.   My good
friend Mike Brooks made some guns like this.....sorry Mike, but he has seen the light, no longer does it.   Another way to
see this happening is to look where the tail of the lock is pointing.......in this case, it is low in the wrist, not in the middle
of it.   In the shop we commonly call it a "goose neck".    So ends my sermon for the day, now go back and take another
look at that gun and hopefully you will see what I mean.   ..............Don

[AMartin]

Well Don .... your old eyes are as sharp as a pin!!!

But I DID NOT build this from somebody's pre-shape ... Marlin Yeager has this barrel inlet into this stick of wood and this is what I had to work with . And I had the orginal John Mewerter laying on my bench when I built this gun .
The original had a swan/goose neck , coming off the barrel fairly straight and flowing into the wrist as you see it ..
Also most Bonewitz rifles are built the same way .

As for the tail of the lock being too low ... most rifles are NOT in the middle of the wrist but rather 2/3 of the way from the top of wrist . but again not every gun is the same ... My thoughts are if the tail is center on most guns , it's too high ..... but look more appealing just below center ....

 The barrel is not too far foward but I feel my lock panels are bit heavy ... and perhaps my forend is a bit short in relation to the length of the barrel . But the swan neck wrist is lot like the original ..
As for the trigger ... most folks keep their trigger back to get a light weight pull . but then you have trigger creep issues ... I have ways around that .

Build on !!

Allen

[Don Getz]

Allen.........I was wondering how long it would take for you to comment.  The gun that you copied.........is it pictured anywhere in a book?  or did Marlin own it?    I could banter with you for a long time, but, you've been doing those Lehigh's
for so long,  you have become somewhat slanted in your views......ha.    Well, wouldn't be the first time you have proved
me wrong.    I was going to mention both Bonewitz and Reedy have that funny hump on top of the wrist.......nice guns
but................Don

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

It's an eye-sore for certain.  Please get it out of America - send it to me in the Great White North where no one will be offended again.  Ha!!!

Allen, I agree with you on two counts.  First, what's worse than a hard trigger, is a creepy one.  A talented builder can make a trigger lighter, but I have not figured out yet how to take the creep out of one except to rebuild or replace the trigger.  Second, I prefer the tail of the lock to be no higher than centre in the wrist's profile, and better if it's a little below centre.

Don, thanks for initiating this discussion.  It's all good.

[Don Getz]

It made for a little discussion, hope Allen doesn't get up tight about my comments.    We've always been good friends,
a little banter over a good gun is good, points out stuff.  Son John said he remembered when Allen built it,   I can't recall
what I did three weeks ago.   .........Don

[D. Taylor Sapergia]

PM to you Don.

[AMartin]

No ..... not uptight , it was just a monday morning !!!!!
I have learned most of my stuff by doing but how many questions have I asked in the past 20 years It's all a learning curve !!!

Ol Duffer , you should post a gun or 2 so we can rip you a new ass !!!!!!

I built that rifle 11 years ago ..... traded for a nice pile of curly maple !!!! That's been only about 150 guns ago !!! man time flies !!
I started a Lancaster schimmel today and by Thursday it'll be into the finish.......

Allen

[Don Getz]

Allen........Well, I see that my comments must have made you think, now you're doing a plain gun which you know I like
and find a hard time to tear apart.   I'll let you evaluate my C. Oerter barn gun, hope to have it for Dixon's.  Maybe you
could use it in your presentation at Dixon's........"see,he did this wrong, and look at this, you should never do it this way"
etc.    Of course, I know you can't do that because, it will be "perfect"..........Don

[Jay Close]

I spent about 15 minutes looking at some of the longrifle picture books and noted that swan/goose neck on a bunch of them. The list includes most Bedford Co. rifles, a John Noll, a John Armstrong, a Grove and many more. I suppose we all come to have an "ideal" rifle we carry around in our head with features we prefer. Sometimes the old masters will throw us a curveball and muddy up our neat preconceptions. Makes it all interesting and provides plenty of room for growth.

[Bill of the 45th]

Good discussion, and thanks for the insight.  Took some pic's to add.  Shot it yesterday, nice tight groups 2" high at 25 yards, and dead on at 50 yards.  Don's right on the feel, and it does bump the cheek a bit, but holds well.  Interesting patchbox release on the toe plate.









When Allen told me about this gun before the auction, I tried to find out if the original was in it, but couldn't find out anything.

Bill

[Collector]

That's the beauty of the American longrifle and Allen Martin's rifles.  They are wholly utilitarian and can be taken out and used in recreational shooting or they can just be visually admired, as a work of art, from across the room or while being held in your own hands.

Just for giggles, let me be the first to state, that I have never shot a rifle, that was custom built/fitted to another persons dimensions (LOP, Cast-off, Drop, arm length, height of head above the shoulders, facial bone structure, mounting style, clothing generally worn, etc., etc., etc.) that I didn't in some way, find just a little uncomfortable, while shooting.

Then again, I think it's generally acknowledged, that some American longrifle stock and/or comb designs, do not lend themselves to comfortable shooting, no matter how well it fits the shooter.

Just my usual $0.014 (devalued for inflation).

Yours and all that humble and obedient stuff,  G.Hansen

[Don Getz]

Good pictures.   When you look at the picture of the left side of the gun, sideplate side, you can easily see what I was
talking about.    I am not familiar with the gun Allen copied, and can't recall ever seeing one pictured in a book of longrifles.
Allen doesn't normally produce these "goose necked" guns, and since he did a bench copy, that would be the only reason
he would have done this.   Of course, the gun is a normal, well done gun by Allen, he is disgustingly talented...........Don