Help me ID Grandad's Mountain Rifle

[flossy21]

It's my first post so please bear with me.  I'd like to find out more info about a Mountain Rifle I inherited.  The story goes that my Grandfather's father was given the Mountain Rifle by his second wife's father (born 1855 - died 1935).  My Gff (great grandfather) had several sons and he was at a loss as to whom to leave it to so he told them the first to have a son would get the gun.  Well my Grandad had a son first (my uncle) so Grandad got the gun.  I was the first son of the next generation so my Dad got the gun and now I have it.

I am including a link to a gallery of pics.  it is a percussion black powder rifle in about .35 caliber (I don't know how to measure).  The barrel is octagonal and it has what appears to be a Goucher lock on it.  It has double triggers (a set trigger and one to fire).  There is some brass work and what I think is a german silver "eagle" decoration on the stock cheekpiece.  The stock opposite the cheek piece has a brass fitting which opens up for the patches.  The sights are crude and it looks like the rear sight has been changed at least once.  The gun is heavy as can be.  I have the bullet mold and assorted picks along with a powder horn to go with it.

I am hoping to find out who the maker might be or any way to determine when it was made and where?  

The gun would likely have come out of MD or PA.  All the people mentioned above lived their lives in WV as farmers or foresters for the most part.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Here's the link to the pics...

http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a271/eersrollonherd/Gun%20Pics/

[jdm]

Glad to have you with us. It looks to me like a West  Virgina rifle . maybe 1850 or so.   I'm sure somebody who is more knowledgeable  than I  will weigh in on this. Maybe a late gun made by one of the Honaker family?   JIM

[Beaverman]

Very cool, would like to see the horn!

[Tanselman]

You did not mention if there is a maker's initials or name on the top barrel flat behind the rear sight, about in the middle between the rear sight and the breech. If so, it should answer a lot of questions. The 1850s suggestion is probably accurate, and the acorn finial on the cap box is frequently found on WV guns, but that capbox was used elsewhere as well. The long two bolt tang suggests WV or perhaps a more southern state, but perhaps not PA. Shelby Gallien

[flossy21]

You did not mention if there is a maker's initials or name on the top barrel flat behind the rear sight, about in the middle between the rear sight and the breech. If so, it should answer a lot of questions. The 1850s suggestion is probably accurate, and the acorn finial on the cap box is frequently found on WV guns, but that capbox was used elsewhere as well. The long two bolt tang suggests WV or perhaps a more southern state, but perhaps not PA. Shelby Gallien

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  If there is a mark on the barrel I have not been able to find it.  I will look again this evening but I believe the barrel is unmarked.

Was Shelby Gallien a gun maker of the time then?

[flossy21]

Very cool, would like to see the horn!

I'll get some pics together this evening of the horn and other items and post them to the same album.  Thanks for your reply.

[Robert Wolfe]

Flossy,
Shelby is Tanselman's real name.

[JTR]

Flossy,
Shelby is Tanselman's real name.

But he's probably old enough to been a gun maker of the time!
John

[Blacksmoke]

Flossy,
Shelby is Tanselman's real name.

But he's probably old enough to been a gun maker of the time!
John

  No I don't think so - I've met him several times and he does not have a long white beard and he does not wear "bib overalls"!   

[TPH]

Glad to have you with us. It looks to me like a West  Virgina rifle . maybe 1850 or so. .........     JIM

I agree with Jim. And flossy21, I like your calling it a "mountain rifle". Where I came from, the Alleghany Highlands of western Virginia and eastern W.Va., muzzleloading rifles were always called "mountain rifles".

[flossy21]

Glad to have you with us. It looks to me like a West  Virgina rifle . maybe 1850 or so. .........     JIM

I agree with Jim. And flossy21, I like your calling it a "mountain rifle". Where I came from, the Alleghany Highlands of western Virginia and eastern W.Va., muzzleloading rifles were always called "mountain rifles".

I am from close by there.  I grew up in Pocahontas County, WV which borders Bath Co., VA.  We always called them mountain rifles or blackpowder rifles.

[TPH]

Yes, Pocahontas is just north of Greenbrier and Bath is just north of Alleghany, those two are my "home" counties.

[WV_Mountaineer]

Let me start by claiming to be an absolute novice, and congratulate you on your inheritance.  Am wondering if the cheekpiece inlay could be aluminum?  The reason I ask is that the butt stock layout of this gun looks very similar to a M. M. Benson rifle on page 121 of the "Gunsmiths of West Virginia".  As I understand it the Benson family used aluminum for their inlays, a rather unique practice to their family.  I believe they began in Preston County, but M. M moved to Fairmont at some point in his life.  Anyway, the layout of the cheekpiece, the comb lines, the butt plate, trigger guard, and triggers look similar to my eye  to the one pictured.  I also note the triggerguard is held in by screws front and back, similar again to a M. M. Benson on page 120 of the same book.

[flossy21]

Let me start by claiming to be an absolute novice, and congratulate you on your inheritance.  Am wondering if the cheekpiece inlay could be aluminum?  The reason I ask is that the butt stock layout of this gun looks very similar to a M. M. Benson rifle on page 121 of the "Gunsmiths of West Virginia".  As I understand it the Benson family used aluminum for their inlays, a rather unique practice to their family.  I believe they began in Preston County, but M. M moved to Fairmont at some point in his life.  Anyway, the layout of the cheekpiece, the comb lines, the butt plate, trigger guard, and triggers look similar to my eye  to the one pictured.  I also note the triggerguard is held in by screws front and back, similar again to a M. M. Benson on page 120 of the same book.

Thank you for posting.  It so happens that my Grandad and the father in law who gave him the gun were both born & raised in Preston County, WV.  I checked the bird shaped inlay on the cheekpiece w/ a magnet and it did not stick so the inlay could be aluminum.

[TPH]

Good post with good information WV_Mountainman, but while aluminum for the eagle on the cheek piece is a possibility, aluminum was a very scarce metal at the time this rifle was made and quite expensive. I think it is more likely that it is german silver.

[WV_Mountaineer]

T.P.H.  Thank you for the kind comments regarding my post.  I asked the question regarding aluminum, as it seems to be a trait of the Benson family of gun builders.  There is discussion of its use in the library on a gun by G. W. Benson http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=6967.0.  I have read other accounts of the use of this metal by the Benson family.  Whisker's book does not discuss G. W. Benson or provide dates related to his gun making, although he does discuss a William Benson.  M. M. Benson was a gunmaker in 1880.  Now that I have revisited the G. W. Benson rifle in the library, many of the similarities noted with the rifle in question are present here, as well.  I hope flossy21 will visually compare his rifle to the one in the library.

[jdm]

Very interesting about the aluminium inlays . I hadn't heard of them before.  It would be my guess do to the late age of the gun and the generic cap box. I bet the inlay is generic also.  JIM

[Hawken62_flint]

Had to respond to WV Mountaineer, as he sent me this link, knowing that I had a little experience with the Benson family of gunmakers.  I owned a William Benson rifle at one point and it did have aluminum inlays.  Although the eagle is unusual for the cheekpiece inlay for a Benson rifle, it could easily have been a request of the person for whom they built the rifle.  The usual cheekpiece inlay on Benson rifles is a flower (lily), but most all inlays on any Benson rifle are aluminum.  Jim Whisker wrote an article for Muzzle Blasts back in June 1988 describing the Benson Family.  My rifle came out of Garrett County, Maryland, not too far from Preston and Marion Counties in WV.  Your Grandad's mountain rifle does share a lot of similarities of a Benson rifle.  The cheekpiece and the buttplate, plus the capbox are all very similar in shape.  Hope this helps a little.

[flossy21]

Thanks to all for your replies.  Even my untrained eye can see a lot of similarities between the Benson gun in the library and my gun.  Given that this gunmaker was in the same county as the two people who I can trace the gun back to I don't know how we can conclude it is not from one of the Bensons.

I promised to post some pics of the powder horn, picks and bullet mold.  I added a picture of all of them to the link in the original posting (also see below).  I also threw in a couple of pics of a Pedersoli .58 cal replica flintlock pistol my wife's uncle put together.  I know this a long rifle forum but I thought maybe some here would appreciate the pistol.

http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a271/eersrollonherd/Gun%20Pics/

[TPH]

Well, by golly, aluminum it is then.

[flossy21]

The reason I ask is that the butt stock layout of this gun looks very similar to a M. M. Benson rifle on page 121 of the "Gunsmiths of West Virginia". 

Anyway, the layout of the cheekpiece, the comb lines, the butt plate, trigger guard, and triggers look similar to my eye  to the one pictured.  I also note the triggerguard is held in by screws front and back, similar again to a M. M. Benson on page 120 of the same book.

I picked up a copy of the book "Gunsmiths of West Virginia" and the pictures you mention certainly do bear a striking resemblance to Grandad's gun.  I am thinking my gun was made by either M.M. Benson or E.D. Benson based on the similarities.

I also picked up a copy of the June 1988 (Vol. XLIX - No. 10), "Muzzle Blasts" magazine.  Starting on Page 26 there is an article titled "The Benson Family - Gunmakers" by James B. Whisker which details these two gunsmiths.  The article mentions that these two were likely cousins but there is no official record of this fact.

Thanks to all who contributed on this thread.  It's great to have an idea of who made Grandad's Mountain Rifle.